sub-zero

First I am not kissing *** for help but would like to thank the guys on the forum that have helped Me build my 7. This weekend was bitter- sweet, I was at a import drag and show event. There was never a moment that people were not around my car in the show. The 7 took best of show and best power plant against many high priced imports. This is where the problem starts.

I have been having many probs. with the Apex WG and just last week found out the valve guide was in fact missing. I put it back together and it seems to work well with the EVC EZ , the more boost I dial the more it gives.

Well I line up at the lights and My wife in the crowd said all the fans were waiting to see the 7. So being my first run, I stage and was not really ready, I look up and the Talon is a 1/4 way down the track, so I gun her and it pulls real hard in 1 st, 2nd was alright with the wg wide open, but as soon as I hit third the wg is wide open from around 4000 rpm untill I SLOWLY pull the rpm to finish the run. I did catch him by the end though.The car DOES not pull under load at all, and It does not really sound like it is missing just the wg is wide open and sounds like a sick dog so it is hard to tell if it had real break up or not. My wife said ther was dark grey /black smoke coming from under the car and it never really smokes ever, in fact it idles so well and runs great untill I go WOT. I do not know if this helps but I was also running c-14 fuel.

After on the way home I tried adjusting the EVC and the same thing happens if it is high boost or low boost. I tried running the car up by watching the boost gage and keeping the wg shut at 1/3 or so throttle the car pulls way harder, but as soon as I get on it and the WG starts to controll boost it does not pull.

The wg is hooked up properly, is this a case of a shitty wg or is there something the matter with my car? I know it it should not be pouring blackish smoke out under WOT.

Please give Me some help in finding this problem because I have this car to rip the **** out of everything else and it is nice that it looks pretty but I need it to pull hard.

MY maps are XS but I looked at SR maps for the same mods and the XS maps are more aggressive.

Thanks for the help.

Steve

sub-zero

Guys, my egt temps are fairly low and my halmeter is reading as rich as possible. Anyone have any suggestions of things to look for? I know the APEX turbo spools quick and I am at full boost at low RPM, but should the car not keep pulling hard up at least into 7000 rpm range. Am i just missing something small , i dont know what to do but I cant run the car again on the track with it being this slow. I am not the best driver but not terrible either but this car is terribly slow. Even with bad tunning it should be in the high 12`s at least, and it is not close. I know I have to tune on the dyno with a wide band but there are not any guys up here that know how to tune with a power FC and this is more then bad tuning I think.

Cheuk in Seoul

What kind of boost were you seeing?
How does your plugs look?

These would be the first things I would look at.

AJatx

iTrader: (1)

The black smoke is the extra fuel that is being dumped out (hence, idle looks great until you hit WOT) of the exhaust ports.

If you have an extremely rich condition, not only will you see some black smoke shoot out the exhaust, but you'll feel as if the car is hitting a wall and not pulling any harder (or a plateau).

Like Cheuk mentioned, you should check your plugs to see if they are fouled (they probably are pretty caked with fuel).

My advice, at least get on a dyno w/ wideband lambda meter to see your A/F ratios. It's worth $50 or so to pull a run and see if you're safe with your A/F. NEVER trust your maps to be done by someone else who is remote (not in town and intimate with your car). Shops will tend to have conservative maps so you won't blow up your car (at least they should have that mentality).

I bet you're running incredibly rich. BTW, your Halmeter is only as good as the O2 sensor you are using (narrowband), so it won't be accurate if you're too rich or too lean. It's only good for telling you if you're way off one direction or the other.

Definitely learn as much about tuning and engine management as possible before you THINK about adding water/propane injection. Even if you are going to pay someone to install/tune it for you, you should at least know what is going on in your car in case something goes awry at the track or what not.

J

sub-zero

Thanks for the replies. I am seeing any boost I set the EVC for and it is reaching full boost very quickly and the WG opens early in the rpm. My first run I had it as low as possible and my peak was .8.

AJAXt, that is exactly what it feels like, a huge plateau. Full boost or about 15 pounds at 4000 rpm and then slow pulling untill higher rpm. I have tried to learn as much as possible about tuning and understand how to do the basics. My problem is that there is no one to tune my car up here in Canada. I will check the plugs again and do a couple of pulls on the dyno on the coming Saturday. If I post these will this help you guys see what is happening? I know it will give Me a idea about he A/F ratio but will the dyno graph help also.

What are the best plugs to run with my setup and 15 to 19 pounds of boost?

Dragon

I replied to your PM, but just noticed your post so I add a little more to what I said in it.. If your running one of the Oooo my blow off sounds so cool and looks so pretty blow off's like the blitz or smaller HKS rtc units then that could be yor problem.. Most of the won't handle over 15 psi with out being forced open and leaking boost and they will only do it under boost with lot's of air volume.. Ie, wot in 3rd gear.. If this is your problem the Gready Racing blow off kicks butt to about 19-20 psi... even more if you get the stiffer spring version..

AJatx

iTrader: (1)

sub,

I would recommend the factory NGK's for 15 psi of boost. If you plan to run very high boost, you may want colder plugs (10's or 10.5's). Easiest thing to do is pull the plugs and have a looksee.

When you get on the dyno w/ wideband lambda sensor (or buy/borrow a wideband kit and run a couple passes at your local drag track), you'll have a clearer picture of where to start (as far as tuning).
Yes, a dyno plot will help along with the A/F ratios.

Do you have the commander for the PFC? I think it's the commander that allows changes to the map (obviously, I've never personally dealt with the PFC).
You'll need to use it to edit the map (fuel first).

How do you know if the XS map is more aggressive?
Do they run more advanced timing or leaner fuel maps?

Good luck!
J

sub-zero

Ajatx, yes they are running more advance and less fuel in the maps. I agree with You Dragon, I have 2 Blitz BOVS and both are turned all the way in. I do get a bit of surge when I have the set screw all the way down but it is not bad. I have not checked to see if Blitz has a higher pressure spring but I could just have one made since the flanges are already on the IC pipe.

I will pull the plugs today and start to search with your suggestions.

I heard there is a another thread about how the Supra was pulling 5 lenghts on another forum member at the track, Ya right. That is one reason i have to get this beast going, the Supras are the king in Calgary I guess, but hopefully not for long. This car sure is a love hate thing.

AJC13B

Has the car actually been tuned for the C14?

I would use C16 though....

sub-zero

OK, I pulled the rear rotor plugs and ordered four new 9`. They are very brown and the trailing was wet. Could have this happened when the guy who was "tuning" used the T-78 maps? I am finding other things again, the wiring harness is complete crap and the plugs are breaking off like nuts, I dont want to repalce untill this winter when i get time to take everything apart again.
The sensor on the back of the water pump( there are 2 and it is the one on the bottom had a broken wire off the plug. Could this cause anything, I dont think that one is the water temp thermo sensor because I had temp readings, but it may cause grief and I am not sure.

I double checked the IC hose and pipe and is OK. The carbon filled oil thing right under the Greddy elbow is not conected to anything, but I will check the hose Diagram to see where it belongs and I again doubt that it is a problem but will connect it.

What is the best and easy way to check the coils, I have an OHM meter and have read different things. What resistance should I have on each coil?

I have a couple of pics of the plugs and the broken electrical plug.

Dragon

If the computer thinks the engine is cold, it will retard the ign by about 15' or so.. that will make it go realy rich on the top end.. Also the secondary set of butterflys in the upper manifold, if you havn't removed them yet, make sure that they are opening when the engine warms up...

AJatx

iTrader: (1)

You'll want to make sure you have all your connectors fixed, including the water temp sensor and water level sensor.

Good set of plugs, dyno time with wideband, and a commander to access the fuel and ignition maps are all you need after you fix all your electrical connections.

You can use an ohm meter to check the impedance on the coils. If you don't have a shop manual, I highly suggest getting one or downloading the pdf version from iluvmyrx7.com website.

You'll need to measure your "+" and "-" terminals in reference to ground and between terminals.

Good luck!

J

sub-zero

Hey Dragon and AJatx , I think the sensor was advancing the timing but i will know more on Saturday when I am on the dyno. The plugs dont look that bad but will change them out. Could the TPS be causing any of these problems or is it more just an idle thing? I will adjust it anyways as the manual says. Thanks again for the input and hopefully by the end of Saturday it will be in much better shape. I think I am going to by a wideband o2 setup to help Me.

Steve

sub-zero

OK, the dyno stuff is done and I will post the sick looking graphs. My first pull was to 6500 RPM and there were so many spikes the guy said He never seen one that bad. The A/F was super rich and it peaked at 350 RWHP but was not accurate. The guy was very worried about the car and thought it was detonating so He pulled out timing out of the conservative XS maps at the peak points, which kind of helped. We screwed around with fuel and some timing, He really new his stuff and We got the cuve to look alot better but were only pulling to about 6000RPM. But every time We thought We had something going We had spiking and I could here and feel the misfire. I put in new 9`s and We checked them after and they were fine.

So here is one problem. My EVC EZ was set on min. boost and held everytime at about .74 but My Greddy electric was showing 1.05 and We hooked up a Mechanical gage showing 15 pounds. Now I am thinking why is this? Is the stock map sensor screwing with my PFC and somehow causing the misfiring?

Also I have been finding that the "shop" I had the motor work done at has left many problems and I should have double checked evrything. I had a Halmeter A/F meter installed with a 3 wire o2 sensor. I have been checking the sensor voltage area alot and notice that My O2 reading stays at 0.01 and does not move no matter if the A/F meter is moving from lean to rich. Will this cause the car to run rich and misfire under load?
Also, I am thinking it could be the coils I checked them for resistance seem ok. I am trying to find this Gremlin and am getting a little sick of this, anyone have some more knowledge for Me?

AJatx

iTrader: (1)

It sounds like your O2 sensor isn't hooked up or it's shorted to ground. Triple check the wiring and make sure it's A) connected and B) not shorting to the downpipe or firewall or any potential ground.

I'm not familiar with the PFC, but I would imagine that the O2 trim shouldn't affect WOT or boost runs.

It sounds like your plugs and coils may be ok. Check the plug wires?

Does the PFC allow you to alter the dwell time?

What spikes are you seeing? A/F ratio or horsepower?

What kind of wastegate spring tension do you have?
Turn off the boost controller or pull the hose off the top port of the wastegate (perferred) and see what boost level you are running. It should stay at the spring tension (i.e. if it's a 10psi spring, WOT should sustain 10psi).

J

sub-zero

The A/F ratio was rich all through the runs. We were getting huge HP/torque spikes, some are over 100 HP. The guy running the dyno thought I was detonating, but in it must have been misfire or She would not be able to take that much knocking (knock only peaked at about 80 on the PFC). Could it be a bad map sensor? Would that cause this. There is a huge difference between the gages and the power FC and I have checked the map sensor conections and they are fine.I have 2 sets of new plugs , the wires are new, I have added the Ignition Solutions amplifier to help. It is strange because it starts at low RPM around 4500, had full boost for sure by then, and I was only taking it to 6500 RPM, so I would think that it will be way worse up top. The waste gate is working perfect now holding and no creep, even though it takes so long to pull the RPM up.
When I got the car back in the spring it would not even pull in 1`st gear, so I grounded the **** out of everything and it is at the point where it is now. We pulled timing in the various cells that the HP spikes were happening, and We pulled fuel out in the PIM setting (RPM) of the PFC and the pig still ran super rich. At the end I was seeing only about 65% INJ. duty. I am thinking this has to be electrical problems for sure.

Maybe I just need to upgrade all the ignition, I dont know what to try. It is getting sick.

Maxthe7man

Hey Subzero, I am in Calgary as well, I am tuning my car with a haltech e6k, I would be interested in seeing your car sometime, and may be able to shed some light on some of your problems, I am gonna hit the dyno pretty quick to see what kind of power I am making, I have a wideband o2 permanently installed in my car, I am tuned to 11.5: across the board at 15 psi right now..Max

sub-zero

Gordon, thanks for the help and Your time. Mods are listed in sig, but I have not used the H2O due to all my problems.

Max, if You can PM Me with Your phone number I can come back up to Calgary when You are available.It sure would help if You looked and drove the car and maybe We can find the problem. I was wondering where You bought your wide band and might get one also to help with My quest to get this car working properly. The Halmeter I have is better then most A/F meters but i know You cant tune with it. The funny thing is Max, the "expert" up there sold it to Me and was going to "tune" the car with the Halmeter