04G35S

iTrader: (10)

Hey guys, I bought my FD with most of the mods already done to it. I spent the last few months updating the fuel system to make it more dependable and wanted some incite on my setup before I get it tuned.

First of all, I am shooting for 550rwhp on E85. This fall/winter I would like to buy the Xcessive LIM and ID 1000cc Primaries and 2000cc Secondaries. Please let me know of any weak points in my current setup.

1993 RX7 R1
Garrett T04Z Turbo
Tial 44mm Waste Gate
Tial 50MM BOV
3" Down Pipe with Magnaflow Cat
HKS Ti 3" Exhaust
Walbro 450lph Pump
-8 Feed Line
-6 Return Line
Summit Racing Fuel Filter
Aeromotive FPR
Bosch 850cc Primaries
Bosch 1650cc Secondaries
Custom V-Mount Intercooler/Rad Setup
3" Intercooler Pipes
Emissions Removed
AEM V1 EMS
GM 3bar MAP Sensor
Stock Twin Oil Coolers
Greddy Elbow
NGK Plug Wires
HKS Twin Power
Battery Relocation To Passenger Side Storage Box

On to the part that I can not verify. Old owner stated the engine was rebuilt 6k miles ago which I can confirm with a rebuild tag on the front of the engine. I can not however confirm that the engine is street ported. It pulls -20 at idle so it seems a bit high for a ported engine. I am thinking about pulling the motor this winter for a rebuild as the oil pan leaks and it puffs a very little white smoke on start up.

Photo: Dont mind the super awesome intake filter... It didnt come with one so I had to run out and get one from a parts store.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

You should get 6 id13000 instead. Ignition system will be on its limit, and you will need to remove cat.

Flyweight

iTrader: (1)

I am running two 1000cc primary injectors and four 2000cc secondary injectors. Not to hijack your thread but I am wondering why you are recommending six 1300cc injectors. Also why ID?

Thanks!

-Andrew

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

They are alcohol specific injectors with all stainless internals . They are only available from ID.

Flyweight

iTrader: (1)

Why 6 1300cc injectors instead of two 1000cc and four 2000cc injectors?

04G35S

iTrader: (10)

So I will need to run six injectors to hit my 550whp goal on E85? The guy I bought the car from has a dyno sheet showing 485 with ignition breakup before he installed the HKS Twin Power.

How would I run 6 injectors? I think I would opt for 2 1000cc and 4 2000cc if I went that route. I would assume I would then have to upgrade to twin pumps (which I dont want to do) or get a larger, higher flow pump.

Also the Cat was coming out when I redo the midpipe with a mid muffler. The car is stupid loud right now.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

let's start w the basics... here's your turbo



it is a "mid-size" turbo w 7.0 average sq inches of compressor area. turbos in this range generally make about 550 tops. the TO4Z is a bit unusual in that it has a 63 trim. less spool, midrange, more top end. many turbos in the 7 inch area have 52 trims.

it takes about 73 pounds per minute to make 550 on a rotary. the map is a bit odd because it stops at 68% efficiency. there is a bit more output as you slide down to the more normal endpoint of 60% albeit at less oxygen per pound.

so you could extend the map a bit but note the RPM lines at around 70 becoming almost vertical. vertical is the end of the trail.

as to fuel....

73 pounds of air.... 7.3 pounds of fuel or 4349 CC per minute X 1.35 to adjust for lag and 85% duty cycle = 5871 CC/Minute of nominal injector requirements X 1..4 for E85 = 8219 CC to do 550 on E 85. this allows a reasonable reserve.

i just run 4 2200 cc Bosch EV14 injectors and have significant reserve at 577 SAE, 588 STD. it has yet to be determined exactly what the requirements are for E85 V gas.... 1.4 is conservative. i see less.

as to injectors... i have no problems w ID but they are fundamentally Bosch EV14 injectors and are all similar inside. all EV14s work w gas or alcohol. EV14s are the 21 st century injector w a fifth of the dynamic weight of your injectors. since they are far more controllable a 2200 CC injector can work very well in the primary position.

i don't know what your ECU capabilities are w re to running injectors but mine runs 2200 in the primary spots and they work just fine. IMO you don't need 6 injectors although there is nothing wrong w going that route.

since you are in Wisconsin my very best advice is to talk w Luke Stubbs at Beyond Redline in Green Bay and listen carefully.

mid muffler... Borla 40944. you will love it. i do

good luck,

Howard

04G35S

iTrader: (10)

Howard, as usual you come to the rescue and make me feel a bit better about what I was thinking I need. Let me clarify, I am okay with 500-500rwhp as this car is solely a street car.

If I am understanding you correctly I should run 4 Bosch 2200cc injectors (If AEM V1 can control that large of an injector in the Primary location. Are these what you are referring to?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-205lb-2200cc-EV14-High-Impedance-Fuel-Injectors-4-w-Sumitumo-to-EV1-plug-/390490021808?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5aeb04dfb0&vxp=mtr
If so would I need to run a top hat (they look short) and where would I get them? These are priced right around the ID injectors so I am good with that. Although I have see some used 2000cc ID injectors for sale on here for a decent price.

Also in regards to a fuel pump, I have heard nightmares about running two Walbro/Denso pumps. I had a friend with a RB25 blow his engine because a pump lost pressure under boost. What pump/s would you suggest?

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

ID1000 and ID2000 are E85 compatible. No worries there.

When you buy ID injectors, they include the adapters of you choice. One more reason to go with them over the EBay seller of the week.

04G35S

iTrader: (10)

I used eBay an example of which injectors to get. But if I go ID should I get 4 2000cc injectors? From what I have read it seems like other people have obtained my goal with 1000cc P /2000cc S.

04G35S

iTrader: (10)

I called and spoke with Luke Stubbs at Beyond Redline Performance and he was a HUGE help! He said I should have more then enough fuel with 1000cc Primaries and 2000cc Secondaries. That being said AEM can control the 2200cc injectors and it would leave me quite a bit room if I wanted to go bigger. I am leaning more to the 4 2200cc Bosch injectors.

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

I also agree that you will need more injector. At minimum 1000/2200cc combo. The only thing that would make me hesitant is pushing a motor with unknown internals. 20hg vacuum sounds healthy but seems high for a motor with any decent size of a port. Do you know what seals were used?

04G35S

iTrader: (10)

I have no idea what is in the motor, I am starting to think it is a stock port oem rebuild. I am thinking about pulling the engine this fall and rebuilding it this winter just to be sure what I have. Not to mention it puffs white on hot starts so the coolant seals are going bad.

I think I have decided on the Bosch 2200cc injectors. I just need to know if I need the extenders or if they are they are the proper size.

04G35S

iTrader: (10)

Bump,
I need to know if the Bosch injectors above are the right ones.