Hey,
I was looking at a T04 60-1 for my 90 TII, and was wondering if the extra 400 bux for the ceramic Ball Bearing upgrade is worth it?

What's it do basically?

Thanks!,
Manolis

 

Ball Bearing turbos supposedly spool quicker. (i say supposedly since spool times for an RX6 BB turbo are not much different than for a T04E non-BB for the FD). they are supposed to spool quicker than non-ball bearing, but they are not rebuildable.

 

The price on rebuilding a ball bearing turbo is outlandish. Dont even consider it

 

Its so high that most places just replace the cartridge!

 

About how many miles (aggressive 17 year-old driving ) will a run-of-the-mill T04 60-1 last @ 10-12 psi of boost before it needs a rebuild?

Thanks!,
Manolis

 

You shouldnt have a problem for a while unless you blow an apex seal throught the turbo My friend has been running a T04E on his car for around 3 years and still has not blown his motor or blew his turbo. He drives his car quite often.

 

We have NEW GT series turbo from Garret, twin ball bearing, the works.

It is the best turbo ever. Don't bother with turbonetics, these are the real deal, the aerodynamics and design of theses wheels is like nothing I've ever seen.

we threw some apex seals through the turbine it was brand new, It is getting repaired as we speak. If anyone needs one of these fixed I can help you.

 

I don't understand, what does the stock turbo have instead of ball bearing? I am sure they have BB on the shaft, maybe it's just not ceramic. Is that what the difference is? If so, what's the stock ball bearing made out of? Would titanium be better than ceramic? Ti is lighter and probably almost as heat resistant as ceramic right?

 

How much are the Garrett GTB turbos costing everyone? I would be interested but I need to find a dealer. Right now I'm looking @ Turbonetics because they seem to be the only ones out there. You have some other companies like Innovative ... but they are jerks ...

 

Loot!!!

 

Come on Greg ... spill it!

 

Ordinarily, turbos have journal bearings (no ***** or rollers). They're actually pretty sophisticated "floating" units, they're not just simple bearings like you'll find on, say, an engine. But that's all there is.

I've heard lots that dual BB is bad... that it's better to have single BB on one end and standard bearing on the other, something about being better at controlling end-play than dual BB. I never bothered to pay attention because I figured BB turbos were far too expensive for me to think about, now I find out that some domestic diesels used IHI RHF6 turbos on them, which are BB and just right for a nicely built 12A, so now I'm soaking the info up 'cos if I can get one for $100 at the junkyard I'm SO there.

 

Obviously whoever you heard from that dual ball bearing is bad must have had their head up their ***.

Garrett has designed these turbo's for motorsport only, we used to buy them a few years ago and they were about 3500 dollars, now they've come down to less than half that price, the technology in these things is from the 90's not the 70's like all the standard stuff you're used to seeing. Trust me there is a huge improvement. Small frame T-28 size turbo's can perform as well as a T-3 frame turbo.

having a bearing PRESSED into a housing on the cold side with a shaft attached to it that spins at 100,000 plus RPM is not a good idea. The RESONATION of a shaft spinning at those speeds destroys the ball bearings. This is the main reliability problem with turbonetics, thats why we were throwing them out after about 8-9 passes. you'll notice turbonetics turbo's have little or no play on the cold side.

The Garret GT series Turbo's use Twin ball bearings, one on either end of the shaft, On the OD (outside diameter) the bearing is floating on a film of oil, to dampen the resonations, they also use NO thrust bearing, eliminating another source of failure. You'll notice they have a bit of play in the shaft.

As long as the turbo isn't completely destoyed it can be repaired, like ours which had turbine damage, from fast moving apex seals.

I only use these turbo's, the improvement in performance is well worth the added cost. Anyone who wants more info can PM me.

 

BB Turbo's are very quick spool up. I have had some experiance of these Turbos and now i have driven a car with one fitted i would all day have one on mine.

There is many Pro's and con's for BB Turbos the biggest is the Spool up time and Core is very hard to damage from Oil starvation as for the cons the biggest is the cost of a new core as that are not rebuildable (if u where unlucky enough to damage one).

But in my experiance i would spend the cash and get a full BB.

 

Full BB turbos like the Garrett and Apex models offer faster spoolup (sometimes only 100rpm) and usually allow you to run an ex housing 1 size larger w/o any lag.

Cons: if anything inside of the center housing takes a **** it is better to just replace the entire turbo since replacing the CHRA will to put the repair bill somewhere near 75% of the cost of a new turbo.

 

ditto to what Rutt said, I had a HKS GT2530 **** a bearing while running it on my CR-X a few years back. When the bearing went the shaft wobbled and took out the compressor housing and compressor wheel and exaust wheel... The only good parts left were the exaust housing and some bolts... It was boosting 1K and only on the car for about 20,000 kms...

Anouther guy over here was running twin I beleve HKS GT3035's on his RB26 Sylvia and one of them ****... It droped some of the ball bearings down the oil drain hose into the oil pan where the took out the engine...

I would stay with the good old reliable Brass bushing turbo, If it ***** you just buy $50 worth of overhaul parts from turbonetics and maybe a compressor wheel...

 

You can stay with old school technology, or you can try cutting edge stuff and be knocked on your *** by the results.

I've always thought of it this way, I can follow or lead, If I follow I'll always play catchup. Or I can try something different and be rewarded.

we went from 500 @ 30 psi (smallish turbo, T04 O trim 1.3 housing) to 540 @ 26 psi with less lag? Why in God's name would I ever want to go back to a bushing turbo? To get beat? never.

I fabricate alot of turbo setups, in my experience; I would never again deal with turbonetics, I am not impressed with their products, If I'm going to pay a premium price for a turbo, I better get premium performance. For the extra money I'll gladly drop the hay and get the absolute ******* best **** there is.

 

I think your problem was the O trim A/R 1.3 exaust housing... Not the fact that it was a standard bushing type turbo... I'll go for the reliability and give up the 5 hp in the lower mid range where it doesn't matter in a drag race anyway...

 

Dragon, I know the O-trim was kinda restrictive. My best time was done with the old turbo at 500 hp.

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