50mm JGS wastegate vs 44mm Tial (pics)
03-25-10, 09:14 PM
#1
50mm JGS wastegate vs 44mm Tial (pics)
My FD has been having a boost creep problem with my set-up since I bought the car a year and a half ago. After trying everything else I could think of, I decided to upgrade my Tial 44mm wastegate to a JGS 50mm gate. They use the exact same inlet flange so while it's an easy swap (WG vented to atmosphere) I was unsure how much flow difference there could be.
There appears to be a huge difference between the two. I have not installed it yet (should get to it this weekend), but this thing is significantly larger. The inlet diameter is 46.04mm vs. 38.89mm and the outlet diameter is 44.45 mm vs. 41.28 mm. The reason the inlet is so much larger yet uses the same flange as tial is due to the valve 'sealing ring' lying flush with the flange's inner edge.
Overall this is a very nice piece with solid construction. It uses a piston with silicon o-rings instead of a diaphragm. The only downside over the Tial for me so far is that is has a large internal snapring that holds the top of the WG to the body; this thing is annoying as hell to get off to change the spring. Other than that it's a great looking wastegate, hopefully it will solve my creep issues.
Attached are some camparison pics:
There appears to be a huge difference between the two. I have not installed it yet (should get to it this weekend), but this thing is significantly larger. The inlet diameter is 46.04mm vs. 38.89mm and the outlet diameter is 44.45 mm vs. 41.28 mm. The reason the inlet is so much larger yet uses the same flange as tial is due to the valve 'sealing ring' lying flush with the flange's inner edge.
Overall this is a very nice piece with solid construction. It uses a piston with silicon o-rings instead of a diaphragm. The only downside over the Tial for me so far is that is has a large internal snapring that holds the top of the WG to the body; this thing is annoying as hell to get off to change the spring. Other than that it's a great looking wastegate, hopefully it will solve my creep issues.
Attached are some camparison pics:
03-25-10, 09:23 PM
#2
The first two pics show how the JGS inlet flange is flush with the valve seal ring. The third picture shows the inlet flange on the Tial, you can see how the valve seal ring is not flush and reduces the diameter by over 7mm. The 4th pic again shows the difference in the inlet diameters (the compass is at the JGS diameter).
03-25-10, 11:22 PM
#3
Rotary Enthusiast
44.45 mm vs. 41.28 mm... (about 12% increase in area / flow)
not a huge upgrade if that's what you where looking for.
Still will be interesting to see the new results. assuming you use the same spring rates, pipe sizes, etc.
not a huge upgrade if that's what you where looking for.
Still will be interesting to see the new results. assuming you use the same spring rates, pipe sizes, etc.
03-26-10, 06:50 AM
#4
Also, if your going to use that method of compare, you should compare smallest diameter on both gates; so it's really 38.89 (Tial inlet) to 44.45 (JGS outlet), which I think is 12% (your numbers above give about 7%).
I'm also pretty sure the inlet size plays a larger role than the outlet size, since the valve restricts flow volume; maybe more so at lower RPMs. It's hard (for me at least
) to figure out how much more one gate will flow over another. Another thing to note is the body of the JGS is much larger as well which should further help flow.
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03-27-10, 07:57 AM
#8
With no exhaust back pressure (with a bike pump), the Tial with 10lb spring cracks at 13.5 psi and is fully open at 17.5 psi.
The JGS medium spring cracks at 10 and is fully open at 14. The large spring cracks at 14 psi and is fully open at 18. So the large spring is similar to the Tial 10lb spring. I'm still debating which one to use... when exhaust backpressure comes in to play, it's hard to predict.
03-27-10, 08:33 AM
#9
it's interesting how rated spring pressure differ (even when bench testing). My old HKS 40mm was rated at 10psi bout would crack at 6 or 7, and be fully open at 10 pounds. But if it was cold out boost would creep to 13.
I haven't had any problems with the Tial 44, but I have the 13psi spring.
I haven't had any problems with the Tial 44, but I have the 13psi spring.
03-28-10, 11:29 AM
#10
Today I gave it a test run... with the JGS medium spring I couldn't get the car to make more than 12 psi at redline with a hallman MBC about 75% closed. So, the good news is that this thing is flowing enough for my set-up 
. The tial never got me below 17-18 lbs at redline depending on the weather.
I'll switch to the large spring (bench testing showed it was about 5psi stiffer, cracking at 14.5 psi and fully opening at 18-19 psi) next week and see if I can't finally be done with my boost drama...
. The tial never got me below 17-18 lbs at redline depending on the weather. I'll switch to the large spring (bench testing showed it was about 5psi stiffer, cracking at 14.5 psi and fully opening at 18-19 psi) next week and see if I can't finally be done with my boost drama...
05-07-14, 04:39 PM
#14
Bringing this back up. Anybody else running this wastegate? Has it been reliable? Debating on which wastegate to go with since my 38mm cant hack it anymore since I have gone full standalone and don't run a afm. Was thinking of getting the Tial 44mm, but afraid it wont keep up. Currently creeping to 18psi in 3rd gear. Would like to keep it around 12psi for day to day driving
06-03-14, 11:13 PM
#15
So I ended up picking up the JGS500R wastegate at first because I liked the idea of having the Vband to separate the body top to replace the spring or other parts if needed. Come to find out it is bigger than the regular JGS500 wastegate and had to return it because it wouldn't fit my setup. What they did was use the regular 50mm bottom body half and stuck there JGS600 60mm top on it to give it the vand. Very beefy wastegate. just wish I could have used it. Here are a couple pics of the JGS500R against my Tial 38mm.
06-03-14, 11:21 PM
#16
I exchanged wastegates and got the regular jgs500 50mm wastegate. JGS was extremely helpful and was able to exchange it straight up. The jgs500 is very robust and looks well built. moehler already gave a good description of the quality so I will just post a couple of my pics.
I am running a HKS cast manifold so I ordered the Banzai Racing HKS 4 bolt wastegate to flange adapter to be able to run the JGS wastegate.
I am running a HKS cast manifold so I ordered the Banzai Racing HKS 4 bolt wastegate to flange adapter to be able to run the JGS wastegate.
06-03-14, 11:24 PM
#17
Mine came with two springs. A big red and small grey. The big red feels softer than the grey so I kept it installed to see when the wastegate would open.
Wastegate in the open position about half way
The JGS wastegate next to the tial with adapters installed to see the height difference. This new setup gave me more clearance were the Tial would slightly rub the exhaust slightly
Wastegate in the open position about half way
The JGS wastegate next to the tial with adapters installed to see the height difference. This new setup gave me more clearance were the Tial would slightly rub the exhaust slightly
06-03-14, 11:39 PM
#19
So after getting it installed I went out to do a few pulls to see how everything was running and the max boost pressure I am hitting is 7psi in 3rd gear with the red spring. So I thought perfect! The wastegate is big enough and flowing enough so that I am not creeping anymore! Woo! So I started to turn up the boost and everything was adjusting great. Getting it up to 10psi then 12 and 14psi, but that's where it stopped. lol.. If I tried to increase boost pressure the wastegate would surge and it wouldn't build any more boost. So I am going to try out the smaller grey spring to see if it increase the boost pressure, but still stay in the low teens.
06-03-14, 11:39 PM
#20
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Damn!
wish I would have known about that Vband thing on the different JGS wastegates.
I had to grind a touch on the frame to make the thing fit,not to mention make a offset flange for the Wastegate on the HKS manifold.
The Banzai flange wouldn't work as it stuck the gate out too much and it hit stuff.
wish I would have known about that Vband thing on the different JGS wastegates.
I had to grind a touch on the frame to make the thing fit,not to mention make a offset flange for the Wastegate on the HKS manifold.
The Banzai flange wouldn't work as it stuck the gate out too much and it hit stuff.
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24seven_dada
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