Groshuk

I have been looking but haven't had much luck finding anything, what I am looking for is specifics like:

1.7 is meant to work with exhaust upgrades only

1.8 is exhaust and boost set to 10psi

And so on, someone should know this and I would have expected to find it on their site somewhere.

sc0rp7

iTrader: (3)

I believe any mods are suitable, with the assumption you dont max out the injectors and don't go over 15 psi... the only difference between the versions (1.7, 1.8 etc) is the programming for the injector size... This is merely my impression of the mods... I could be way off...

- Chris

turbo2ltr

iTrader: (1)

Every car is different so there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to how much upgrading you can do for a particular stage. Thats why you dont find a list on the website.

The idea is to monitor your engine with a wideband and that will tell you when you have "too many" mods. The chip is just another component in a system with a lot of variables that all have to work together.

Groshuk

You must have some idea what is too much though, I can understand you want to cover your *** and not say this is 100% right but you should you should be able to give some idea of an upgrade path to take.

Personally I have a REVII exhaust, heavily ported wastegate running stock boost with no FCD as it never hits cut off and a stock fuel pump.

I want to put your chip in, swap injectors as needed, add a manual boost controller set to 2 pounds less than what would be considered the max safe level and never touch anything else. I'm hoping for maybe 10psi and call it a day.

lax-rotor

iTrader: (1)

That's the thing though. There's too many variables to say "Hey, if you have x,y,z you'll get A and be set."

You alter the way the intake and exhaust function your car will not perform as stock. You throw on a cat back, is that going to flow your exhaust more or less than stock? Is it going to flow more or less than some one who has a cat-replacement pipe and down pipe, but kept the stock cat back? Is the boost pressure higher or lower than what is nominal? You see the problem right? It's engine control and there's alot of stuff that goes into the engine to have it function properly, changing a few points of it here and there does not always yeild the same result.

Different ages on different engines will behave differently when the same modifications are done. For instance: A fresh off the lot 13B will see something different from an intake and exhaust, where a 13B that has over 50k, 100k, 150k on it will behave different. You see the problem?

rogrx7

iTrader: (11)

I think you are just looking for words of comfort.

If you doing mild upgrades and hybrid turbos go rtek.

If your going with wild upgrades and full aftermarket turbos than you need a aftermarket ECU.

Groshuk

Sure comfort is nice but I still think if you design a product you should know what it works best with, you should be able to say we recommend you do A, B and C to get D, if you do anything else we're not responsible.

RB does it with their exhaust, they say you need a FCD and if you do anything else you're likely to have problems. I'm sure Knightsports and HKS did it with their ECU upgrades.

The lighting company I run tells you in detail what you need to do to properly support one of our chandeliers and we say if you do something else it's fine with us but don't cry when you find it on the floor one morning. It's a matter of standing behind your product.

And Lax if you're saying your product is meant to work x,y and z to get A then there are no variables, you're spelling out exactly what is known to work and if someone wanders off in their own direction they assume responsibility. Sure there will be some variation due to engine life and that's why you specify to the worst end of the spectrum instead of the best.

It's like speed limits on the road, they don't say 60 miles an hour if you're near sighted pensioner driving a huge 70's boat with crappy brakes but if you have a brand new Porsche with 6 years of race experience, perfect reflexes and eyesight you can do 100.

turboefini88

iTrader: (1)

You cant when it comes to a tuneable ECU!!!! Thats what everyone is saying!! There are too many variables with individual cars to even start to guess what is " acceptable mods" for each unit. Tuning a car is NOT an absolute.

The age and condition of an engine will determine MORE of what you can get out of a tuneable ECU then what upgrades.

Also, the RnD to get cars with EVERY AVAILABLE MOD to come up, get installed, dyno tune, and say this is the best with this version would just not be cost effective. Companies like AEM, Haltech, Michrotech ect ect dont do it, why should Rtek? Do you understand what I am trying to say here?

Groshuk

I was asking about the 1.7 and 1.8, neither of which are tunable unless I am seriously mistaken. So you have set limits with the ECU meaning there is a point where you go beyond it's abilities.

Seems like some pretty easy testing to me, S5's have been around almost 20 years so the limits of the stock systems should be well known.

At W psi you hit fuel cut
At X psi you hit the limits of the injectors
At Y psi you hit the limit of the pump
At Z psi you hit the limit of the turbo

These are all known numbers right? So does a 1.8 hit it's limit at W,X,Y or Z? If you have extended the fuel maps and added timing cuts there must be more than guess work behind it.

At the very least you can say we made our best numbers during testing using "this" set up.

lax-rotor

iTrader: (1)

Alright, so lets run with what you're saying:

You throw in a 1.5, it's the same injector size as stock. So when are your stock injectors maxing out? Are they flowing like new or are they clogged and leaking?
Fuel Cut is eliminated in these setups so no need to worry about it unless you're running stock. What octane are you using? Premium or is it race? How's the gas you got from the station? Is it really what they claim it is? (for 1.5 we'll assume that the pump is stock) is it flowing like it should? Any drop in pressure? any sediment getting pumped through the system? Finally, how's the age of the turbo? how many CFM is it flowing? is it in the max efficiency range on the rpm band? Do you have any carbon build up that could cause problems in the turbine? How is the turbine housing? How many miles has it been running, how much boost have you set it to?

Those are questions you'd need to answer, if you want to know what you should run. And that's just for a 1.5

For a 1.8 you have to worry about the same thing, but the injectors are increased. That's all. You went from 550 to 720 on both primary and secondary. Which increases your limit to the injectors, everything else is completely dependent on what you are running. Get it? You might have a walbaro racing pump which flows more than we'd ever need. You may have a stock pump which would struggle to make the fuel at higher RPM of a 720. You may have an FD pump which is about the middle ground. You may have an aftermarket turbo, you may have a stock turbo on its way out. There's seriously just too many variables. You can get a general understanding of what would be needed to bring out the best by looking at which one you are thinking of purchasing. Besides external functions (such as flood clear, etc), there's really only one big change between series 1 fuel maps. That is the injector sizes.

Groshuk

You're making a simple question overly complicated, as I said it's a totally stock system, assume everything is in spec and working properly. Let's pretend that we all have enough sense to have everything working properly before we start upgrading.

You're obsessing over details that have no relevance to the question, why do you all have such a problem giving a straight answer?

lax-rotor

iTrader: (1)

Because rarely, if ever are these cars functioning as the would stock. They're 20+ years old. Nothing is functioning as it would be right off the factory lot because guess what? Age, owners, environment have all taken their toll. Why do you think that a majority of the "First things you should do to the car" are maintenance related?

IF we assume that everything is functioning properly and is 100% stock prior to this upgrade one might say that this holds true for yadda yadda yadda, but really all it's done is set the bar way out of the park. If we start with a bad assumption before all this stuff then we aren't really making any valuable head way, we've just said here's an imaginary car with some upgrades that should see these numbers. Reality sets in though when you set up for that and run super lean, or super rich, all because we started with a bad assumption. So why not think this way instead:

You want more fuel to make more power. You pick up a 1.8 and a wideband. You leave your boost pressure at stock levels. You run pig rich. You increase boost until you're running 12's or so on the AFR, you take it for a spin and notice that your AIT are fine for the moment and your not running into boost spikes. Leave it. Or you start running 12's on the AFR and you notice boost spikes, guess what? time to upgrade your turbo or turn down the boost pressure (or port your wastegate more). OR you AIT's start upping to an unsafe point. You then have to run a front mount intercooler. Drop your AIT's down.

There's no need for RTek to say: "You should have a front mount, bigger wastegate, and more efficient turbo prior to installing this upgrade" There's just no need as one car may be fine and make the power they want from just the bigger injectors and more boost (leaving their AIT's at nominal values) while another may not be because of the aforementioned reasons.