SEDUCE

Hey guys i am in process of changing to Methanol fuel.

I have a few questions i have and was hoping someone can help out.

What grade micron filter do you guys run who use methanol?

Does the fuel cell have to be mounted higher than the pump when using a engine bay mounted cell ? If so does the whole cell have to be higher or just make sure the fuel level is?

I am running AN-12 from cell to pump, then AN-10 from pump to rail what size should i run from rail to reg and also reg to cell (return) ?

That is all i can think of so far but if someone could help out i would be greatly appreciated.
thanks guys

13B-RX3

iTrader: (2)

I run a screen filter before the pump and a 100 micron after, both stainless steel. The fuel level does not have to be higher than the pump but it would definitely be better, especially if the cell is not in front of the pump. The best setup would be the cell above and in front of the pump. As for the size of the lines it depends on the pump. If the line starts to restrict the fuel flow you will lose the ability to accurately control fuel pressure. I run a -12 to the filter 3 -8 to the rails (4 injectors each) 3 -8 to the reg and a -10 return. My pump is not overly huge so i do not have any problems. Give us a little more info about your setup ( # of injectors, pump/reg, number of rails, hp goal, and how you have it plumbed)

SEDUCE

Thanks for your reply mate, Yes the cell is in front of the pump, The pump is a Goopy mechanical pump. 4 Gallon (15 ltr) cell, pro jay manifold, 8x 1600 cc indy injectors, Aeromotive 13113 reg
Was thinking An-12 from cell to pump, single AN-10 from pump to fuel rail on the manifold (been told might have to run dual supply lines from pump to rail???)
8x 1600 indy blue injectors then An-10 from rail to reg and reg return to cell??

Whats thoughts on that setup?
I am thinking that i would have to run 2 supply lines to the projay manifold but everyone i seen only run single lines????

13B-RX3

iTrader: (2)

Is it a single rail or dual on the projay intake? If it's a single you really have no choice. If it's a dual IMO it would be better to have a -10 line for each rail and to the reg, then a single -10 return. How much power do you plan on making?

SEDUCE

yeah it does have dual fuel rails so i might just have to run one line per rail.
This is what i was thinking of doing before i asked on here

Bacon

iTrader: (12)

lol, love the pic of wilmers old setup, above on here,
We use the funnel filter to filter the fuel when it goes into the cell, and the areomotive 40 micron SS after the pump, your going to want to flush with gas regularly, or have a plan for cleaning your injectors regurally, its not debris that clog them rather the aluminum hydroxide (aluminum corrosion ) that will clog the baskets on the filters up. Looks like little grayish white pebbles, one of those things you can’t get away from with methanol. Even if everything hard anodized, we noticed more buildup in injectors that had buna not viton orings
The Pro’s run a 10micron filter, only ones out there are the moran racing, and paradise racing. Both about 500$
But running -12 to the pump, then -10 in a loop for the projay MTBA setup works flawlessly, we will actually be going to 8x2200 on wilmers setup with a few changes for this year.
Cell above the pump just so the pump stays primed, we have a friend who has his below and just runs a -12 check valve from the cell to the pump, problem solved

freddyrx3

iTrader: (14)

^^^^the way Bacon explains it will work perfectly. Thats the way i plumbed it.

SEDUCE

Thanks for your reply BACON, So what is a funnel filter is it just i screen that goes in the filler thats like a funnel??
I was thinking of putting a 100 micron filter between cell and pump whats thoughts on that?
Ok so if i cant get the cell higher than the pump should i run one of those filters with the check valve in it?
When you say you flush it with Fuel do you just run the car on petrol or do you take them out and clean them??
Like i said i am new to Methanol so sorry for all the questions but i want to get to know this **** as thats what i am using when car is done.
Also thats fine just running one fuel line like the pic?
We are pushing big power and big boost around the 42-48 psi.
Thanks guys

13B-RX3

iTrader: (2)

Yes, Bacon is referring to filtering the fuel as it is poured in.

The cell does not have to be higher than the pump, just the fuel level. You don't want the fuel to be able to drain out of the pump and run back into the cell causing the pump to loose it's prime.

Methanol should not be left in the car any longer than needed. When the race is over drain out the methanol, fill with gasoline, and let the car idle for several minutes to flush the system.


If you plan on running that much boost you are going to need WAY more injector than 8- 1600s. What port? You can get 1000hp with less than 35lb of boost btw. What's it going in that you need that much power?

bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

I'm right here with you SEDUCE...currently building my meth system.

The idea is funnel filter like Bacon said, 5 gal cell in front of car (I assume it will be above the pump since it will be mounted above the round cross brace that the factory horns are mounted to), -12 100 micron filter (maybe switch to 40 micron like weldon recommends), weldon 34706 6+ pump, -10 10 micron filter...as for rails and injectors, I'm still unsure.

And yes, "pickle-ing" the fuel system after racing, and storing with gasoline, as recommended to me by many members.

Bacon

iTrader: (12)

Methanol needs a bit more upkeep, and you have to scrutinize every fitting, and every gasket, and every material in the system. Hard anodizing helps, but be mindful of any bare aluminum in the system. Get it anno’d asap! Don’t use buna orings any where (this includes the ORB fittings!) the more attention you pay to the design/materials the easier it is racing, this past season I didn’t pickle or drain my system at all….65 passes and 5 months and when I pulled it apart I saw why pickeling it important, and why the pros pull and spray out their injectors after their done racing….
Welcome to the best fuel you can run a rotary on, your gonna love it

SEDUCE

Thanks guys i really appreciate your input.
Yes i am running a 15 ltr cell in the front Bigdv519,
Bacon, my reg (aeromotive 13113) uses ORB fittings into it so how do i go about that as you said about o rings?
Ok i might get a funnel filter to i just found them for sale here as well as a 100 micron out of cell.

As for Injectors 13B-RX3, That is what everyone over here (AUS) runs usually 8 indy blues.
My tuner said that is enough and he has used same setup before so hope it does work.

Like i said i am new to this stuff so i want all the info and help i can get so i greatly appreciate it from everyone.

Would a 60 micron filter clogg up instead of a 100 micron?
I would like to keep the same brand system but the filter they do is 60 micron and i got told use 100 micron and the brand i want dont do a 100???

Bacon

iTrader: (12)

100 micron is larger than a 60, realistic 60 is fine
I ran 8, 1650 (blue Bosch's) and made 733@ about mid 70's duty, if you have a semi p port you will use a bit more fuel with the higher airflow.
Jegs, sells viton orings for the oRB fittings,
Only reason I say this is as most if the off the shelf orings in the orb fitting, areoquip, areomotive use buna, and the places we had Buna we noticed the white residue on the oring and by the fitting almost as if the oring was either corroding, or allowing some sort of osmosis through it.. The vitons looked like they were never used.. The fab guy we use builds outlaw 10.5 cars and he says the alcohol cars they change ALL the orings 3x a season regardless... I dont Think we need to be that crazy lol

SEDUCE

Thanks Bacon, So 60 micron will be fine to run between cell and pump?

Yeah thats the same injectors i am running 1650 indy blue, What boost did you run with that HP.
Do you know what the difference is in a viton O ring and a Buna O ring?

Thanks Again

bigdv519

iTrader: (3)

Injector Dynamics - Alcohol Article

Here's a good article regarding the reason why the system should be "pickled".

New word of the day: Hygroscopicity!!!