I DEFINITELY meant ONLY the springs!!!

BTW, from what I've been reading, it seems that the RA springs are "realtively durable" (read PATMAN's posts), but when the engine starts heating up pretty bad and your running, oh I don't now, say.....more than 13-16 psi of boost, then you're pushing your luck.
Basically, I believe they're ok, but I needed a higher "threshold" because I'll be using high compression rotors and I'll be at that amount of boost or more...........I would just be pushing my luck, and that makes me nervous---> just not worth risking for my application.
After I told Tracy Crook that I was kinda nervous about the durability of the RA springs and that I was considering OEM springs, he advised that it would be a good idea to stick with OEM springs if I was going to be running high amounts of boost or nitrous (same goes for engines that will be seeing 8000+rpm's continuously---(aka: peripheral ported engines) He SPECIFICALLY mentioned a few times that the SPRINGS would not be good for NITROUS and MUCH HIGHER THAN STOCK BOOST LEVELS (I guess over 16 psi is pushing it---maybe 20?) He did mention that he has no problems whatsoever running the springs in his 2nd gen as well as his aircraft----both of which are N/A.
All in all, you just can't "push the boundary" with these springs as you could with the OEM springs.
Hope this helps.
Brian

 

Thanks for the info! I'm about to rebuild soon .

 

that does kinda suck.... but i guess i will have some more info for you guys (good or bad) soon, since in a month or so im upgrading turbos and upping boost to 15psi. hope it holds up... if not...well...can you say 20B?

pat

 

Yeah, they were 2 peice.. And not my motor.. SO it is 2nd hand.. But there are alot of them.. Most not as nutty as that though..


but ALL of them seem to be running the 2peice 2mm seals.


Not sure if the 3 peice can hold that much or not.



My main point is TUNING is the vital key to a good engine. the seals have a very small part of that equation. As someone else mentioned, if you fix the seals you will either dent the rotor or crack the rear iron.



Save your money and buy good tuning!

 

Yep as testified by many High revving and turbo cars here
(and we have alot! of rotaries in FL)

The key to making the RA seals work on performance applications is to use OEM springs..................

Atkins seals uses OEM springs
G&S Racing runs 45-50 PSI on them on a thumper turbo

 

Well, as I said before ... I blew the OEM's while tunning (boost control failure) and no more than 17 psi and there is lots of people here (PR) using 2mm OEM at (20-60) psi so my conclusion still the same until more data is available:


RA's while tuning/testing or when first time project car (and definitely w/OEM springs).

OEM when you are confident about your tuning and the reliability of the failure variables.

I'm at break-in with the 3rd batch (dotted numbers) 2mm RAs and OEM springs, new housings, new rotors, new everything!!! Program is set for 24 psi so I'll keep in touch. Off course, I'll keep RA's if no need to change.

BTW. I have read/heard that the BREAK-IN in RA's is a MUST do-it-right. So I'll do 1000K under 4500rpm.

 

I am also glad to hear about the springs as well. I plan on running higher boost in the future. Will used OEM springs suffice as long as they are re-arched? Or is it still questionable. I'm a little tight on cash so the thought of spending another $80-90 on OEM springs doesn't sound too good on top of RA's rebuild kit. But if I have to, I will order new springs.

 

Go with new springs. If you get it back together and it fails over springs you know that $80-$90 won't look too bad after all.

 

Hmm...you're right. I'll order a new OEM set and sell the stock RA springs to recoupe a small part of it.

 

Interesting info but I'm still not sold that boost in and of itself is what degrades apex seal springs. I would say the culprit is heat and heat isn't directly proportional to boost as there are ways of keeping that heat down and out.

B

 

OEM 2mm for turbo and Atkins Rotary for high revving engines and nitrous.. a little extra 2cycle oil in the premix goes a long way..

 

guys,

Just finished break-in @ 900 miles below 4500 rpms (I did not hit the 1000 since the initial program was set for very low boost - Vac to 4 psi).

I'm currently running 14-16 psi with T70 turbo STP engine. NOT ANY PROBLEMS YET!

I'm going to Dyno on Sat. to hit +400hp so i'll let you know...

Im with the 3rd dotted batch/stock springs.

 

Judge ito ,

do mazda oem has 2 piece apex seal ? .
what if turbo application bridge port .. will the stock oem 3 piece seals enough for the clearance ? .

thanks ,

 

Depends on the width and location of the actual bridge leftover. We've done it once and have never done it since.

B

 

I am very happy with mine right now. I rebuilt and street ported this engine using the RA seals and springs a while back. It's a 4 port s5 block that I ran NA for a while, and recently got around to getting my trubo setup all put on. Because of the shitty base map I had in my wolf3d I actually heard some pinging during just regular accleration, then after reading my data logs I noticed at about 9psi boost and 7k rpms my AFRs are getting up to 18.8/1. Engine was starting to cut out and hesitate up there. I'm not boosting anymore til I get it tuned, but even after all that everything is just as good as its always been. I highly doubt OEM seals would go through that much without letting go.

 

The new oem mazda apex seal is a 2 piece. the old style 3 piece seal should not be used for a bridgeport. the 3 piece seal could be used, I have done it, but the eyebrow opening(the second port added next t the factory port) has to be very small. basically a very large bridge to support the split in the apex seal, and a very tiny eyebrow. For all the bridgeport engines a build, I use the atkins 2mm 2 piece apex seals.


don't forget to premix. so many over heated apex seals could benefit from a little extra lubrication..

 

I agree. I am a strong proponent of premix over oil metering. I believe it is far superior.

B

 

Judge ito, have you ever tried RA seals yet?

 

guys,

I dynoed 300 rwhp @ 10 psi last Sat. i had to stop making boost due to turbo oil seals. I did 12 runs ...

Will change turbo today and go Dyno Thursday... if nothing goes wrong, i should hit at least 20 psi on the RA selas...

BTW I'm not premix ... using Mechanical OMP

 

Dyno'd last tuesday.... 520 to the wheels @ 19 PSI(spikes to 20)
with RA seals and stock springs
(daily driven)

Thank You
end of debate

 

But you did use a mix of C16 at those boost levels. I would personally like to see how well they hold up at 15psi on just 93 octane. I think they would hold up, I just want to see to make sure.

 

I ran the new version RA seals at 15psi on 93-94 octane throughout this past summer, generally driving the car pretty hard. Although I am kicking myself after reading this thread for not going with stock springs, but so far so good. I've got about 6K on the motor, but the car has been sitting since the end of October because of winter.

 

Dude

I drive the car every day

I run low boost on the street (15 PSI)

and I have floored it all the way thru 4rth gear
on 93 pump since the tune

No issues

shoot , before the tune I was flooring it @ 15 PSI
Like I stated in other posts in this thread

 

Thats what I wanted to hear.

 

You guys are missing something here. No matter how strong the apex seal is it wont keep a car from detonating. The point here is when the car DOES detonate, what will the effect be? You can run a car at 15psi on oem springs in the summer and not detonate as well. You can also run the Atkins at 5psi and detonate in the Winter.

Now thats what I wanted to hear.