Rotary Aviation seals *Feedback*
 

OK, I have many people asking me -"what do I think of the RA seals???"
I personally have no experience w/ them and decided to do some searching......

With so many engines out there running the RA seals I still see too many complications and not enough solid performance results to choose them over the Mazda ones ...besides their price and obviously RA's claims.

RA has made a few changes to their seals:
-the way they're numbered
-manufactured
-machined
-(recently) they're no longer numbered, all the exact same size.

It would be nice if everyone thats using them, mainly the forced induction engines to leave their feedback/experience.....good or bad.

Is there any serious race cars or shops running them w/good results?

I know few are posting on "maxthe7man's post......w/ mixed results!!!

This reminds me when eveyone jumped the bandwagon using the Hurley seals and after many, many broken seals people now think they're garbage.
But yet, they're good for a few because they cause no damage when they break!!!! **the idea is to avoid opening the motor**

I believe the Mazda ones to be superior and offer better quality control.

I believe Scheepers has tried them in his high revving PP engine and they failed with in few dyno runs....

So lets get some feedback guys.

https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-performance-77/rotary-aviation-seals-10-000-km-report-285884/

I have them

now 1.5k miles on them with the new motor

Lets see hard start issues? non
Boost issues? non- run 15PSI on pump gas
turbo is a PT67 (heavy mod'd TII)
11.8@119 on DR's 1.85 60'

They key from talking to rotary shops that use them around here
is to use OEM springs...The failers they have had with them on high revving NA and N.O machines
have been collapsed RA springs

I just got a set from them a week ago (no # markings this time), so I'll keep you guys updated.

It was the first pull on the dyno. He has never had what happened there happen before or since. You could not pay him to try them again. Tore up two pport housings and the rotors. It was a very expensive 20 second motor.

so it looks like mazda seals are the only way to go, like always.

plz dude

RA has sold thousands and thousands of sets
and yet you hear very very very few reports of failures

You can't blame the seals when theres bad tunning

I hit 20PSI today after my Profec B install
and I spun the tires when I boosted from a cruise speed on 3rd to full boost

dd the little poor RA seals break after hitting close to 500 to the wheels on that pull ? no

wait till I go to dyno to fine tune this bitch for 22-25 PSI

I emailed them January last year inquiring on if the seals would work on high rpm NA motors and Laura Crook replied they would. I forwarded that on to Ken. David Sanchez had just bought a set but had not installed them yet so Ken used them and BOOM!!!! :eek: the rest is history for that motor.

Now I have heard people remark about how a high RPM NA motor is different and YADAYADAYADA but you know what? I was not asking them about a turbo motor or a street car. I asked about a high RPM pport. The answer I got from them did not live up to the results. Ken was pretty pissed and it left me really wishing I had never mentioned trying them.
I personally would use them in a street motor or a turbo app but this will be a memory that lasts for a long time.

Installed the RA seals in Feb.
5K miles on them this past summer.
No hard start issues
Ran 15 psi, 94 octane pump gas, modified stock turbos
11.83 @ 116 on ET Streets 1.77 60'

I have version 2 in my bridgeport, it starts and runs right now like my first motor did at first, fine..I am bit weary of the supplied springs, even with the second set, I had to rebend them to spec before even installing them, they were somewhat flat even new.. That being said, I wonder if peoples problems with the springs just leads back to excessive apex seal clearances..Once it gets to wide, the springs just get cooked and go flat, its a chicken and the egg question in regard to which came first though on tear down...Max

My friend is putting together an RE with a street port and will be using the 2 mm RA seals. Can't comment on them yet, but will update as necessary.

>>RA has sold thousands and thousands of sets
and yet you hear very very very few reports of failures<<

->Sorry buddy, but Hurley Engineering also sold thousands of seals too and it took 1-2 years for many to realize they were NOT better then Mazda ones.

>>You can't blame the seals when theres bad tunning<<
-> AGREE.

I hit 20PSI today after my Profec B install
and I spun the tires when I boosted from a cruise speed on 3rd to full boost
->whenever you spin tires you partially unload the motor.

>>dd the little poor RA seals break after hitting close to 500 to the wheels on that pull ? no <<
Looking at your performance #'s I'm glad to see them holding up.
Keep us updated......

We all know the weakest link in hour engines are the seals mainly when they are poorly tuned or built.
The stock seals have been proven to hold tons of boost and hp.... it's a matter of tuning. Now if you detonate.......the day is over !!!!
I guess we're all looking for a seal that take more abuse like a ceramic but not at their prices!!!

I may even build a spare motor using the RA seals if I find the time. I have the engine parts.

Keep it coming:-)

i have 13k on mine. 9.4 compression turbo II. running 10psi on 89/91 octane. they have survived all the abuse i put them through, including some severe detonation at 14psi when i had a wastegate problem.

pat

Damn I may have just been sold on the RA seals with this post. Do you have water injection? I dont think the Mazda seals would have held up in this situation especially with that octane and with higher compresson rotors and being turbocharged.


Edit: How does the low end feel with the higher compression? Also does your turbo spool faster now?

I dunno, I actually don't see the point of running bionic apex seals anymore anyway, if the motors detonating, if the seals don't blow right away,it just damages something else, somewhere else in the motor.. I have taken apart motors that detonated with mazda 2 piece seals that have survived the pinging, only to find collapsed rotor faces, metal transfer on the eshaft, cracked irons, damged stationary gears, yeah those things don't break and damage the turbo like apex seals 99% of the time, but the apex seals is a fuse, and when a 30 amp fuse is blowing, and you change it to a 60 amp fuse, you just burn down the house instead, you dont solve why the 30 amp fuse is blowing...same goes with the hack and whack 3 mm bullshit... And its not like the mazda oem 2mm seals dont handle the power, I saw tons of cars in Japan making power on oem seals, in every application possible, at boost levels most of us will never run anything close to, and the seals held fine, on P-ports, turbo p-ports, Bp's, 3 rotors, etc etc.For me originally the price was right on the seals with the oring kit, but now I get just as good of price on the oem stuff as the RA stuff so it doesn't even make economic sense to me anymore..Max

Steve Kan just blew his 3rotor car, running RA apex seals @ 8psi

steve kan blew his running only 11.1 afr's......warped seals.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...8&page=2&pp=15

If they where the revised RA seals
timming was too advanced/agressive
or again he used the RA springs
instead of the OEM's
he admitted he rev'd the engine 7k+

(just a guess)

I know hes 100x better tuner then me :D

Just to add something here

When you detonate or what have you, the OEM's seals
crack..usually in the corner or sometimes in the middle
they then damage your housings and rotors
depending if the seal was pushed out the exhaust port or if your lucky stays in place....

Now with the RA they what warp?

warp? or break?
hmm which one would I prefer when I have a mistune or a hicup occurs in the operation of the Rex like a ignition spike...... what have you


I have a Pro tunner flying in , the end of this month

we'll put my RA seals with OEM springs to the test

22-25 PSI on a 67mm turbo
ported motor "the works" etc

Nah, thats not always the case, I have seen more than one motor with detonation damage with intact stock seals.. It just finally takes a broken apex seal for people to really know something has gone wrong, and in some motors, the other parts were on their last legs , but the motor was only torn down when the seal blew since it is the most "visible effect of detonation, and every motor torn down everyone first sees the broken apex seal, and figures that was the cause and end of it, when reality the rest of the motor is wiped out, and has been for some time..
My first batch of seals cost me a set of rotors, so they arent always damage free guaranteed...
And people have broken RA seals to...Max

The funny thing is, 22-25 psi with a 67mm turbo isn't a big deal. You wouldn't even be close to pushing the limits of the stock seals. I've run 35-36psi on 76mm turbo with stock seals with no problems, and also know personally (not second hand/hear say) of another forum member here that has run 40psi with the stock 2mm seals with no problems. The question when rebuilding your engine should be whether you have the money to buy a 2 piece e-shaft with a center support bearing. The stock seals are not expensive and have been proven, why gamble?

why would a 2 peice eshaft be of any help?

damm forcefed7.. thats some crazy boost!

when do you see full boost by?
My friend who sold me his 67mm turbo
just bought a Turbonetics T76 .81 A/R p-trim

After about 630-650rwhp the e-shaft will start to flex allowing the rotors to hit the end housing and or the rotors housings, both will cause the sides seals or apex seals to bind. That's what the you are actually trying to fix when you have you an engine "clearanced". By removing material off of the rotor's sides and faces you will have more clearance between the rotors and housings to compensate for the shaft flexing. If you use a 2 piece e-shaft with a center support bearing you will greatly reduce the amount of shaft flex allowing you to run tighter clearances.

I have 450 miles on them not hot or cold start problems
I used oem springs and clearenced the apex seals a little more than normal
the compresion after the first ten minutes was 105,103,107 on the front and 100,105,105 on the rear.

Thanks Ray (Forcefed7) for jumping in.

Do you find the new Mazda 2 piece seal to be as good or have same limits as their older 3-piece seal?

Always been aware that near ~600rwh internal parts come very close to crashing if not clearanced properly.

So that 2 piece shaft fixed your problem with seals binding???
->Good to hear.

JD

How much more did you clearence?