Neither, Ken is using housings he got from Jesus Padilla. He had me copy the pport setup for the housings. Those are at the spray shop and will be back tomorrow or Tuesday.
Ken also gave me a new set of housings that were given to him through his Mazda sponsorship to pport.
This will really be handy for comparisons between the sprayed and stock housings. We can compare compression, etc.

 

Oh well now

I glad you have made a decision to only coat and not PP
cuase Jesus.P we call him "Kilo" is one of my Rotary Mechanics..His shop is about 10 miles from my House
and copying his PP design then selling it would not be nice

 

Nope, I would rather have a reputation for having ideas others would like to steal or at least came up with on their own (idea envy... almost as bad as the ***** one!) Ken and Jesus are good friends too. So at the request of Ken I made him a copy of something he already owned in order to test a process.
People here were PM'ing me trying to get the measurements for port timing when I posted the thread showing how to build a pport.
They misunderstood that showing someone how setup to cut a hole and make a tube would include those details
The point was to show an economical way to bore a hole and make a tube with affordable equipment. It was not to detail specifications.

One builder (not Jesus) actually PM'ed me and bitched at me for showing others how to do that much. (Make a hole and turn a tube on a cheap mill/lathe)It seems he thought ideas of that nature that effect others "incomes" should be kept to one's self.
I told him not to worry much because most people here don't have enough ambition to try it anyway.
I have yet to get one response from anyone who has bought a little mill/lathe and tried it at least

 

What Jesus doesn't realize is that people have been doing just that same thing for years and years (Rob Golden will gladly walk you through the process, and has been doing so for quite some time). Also, (want some paper numbers? ) Mazda has made PPort timing numbers available for almost 20 years... you've just got to know where to look.

It's my opinion that at this point, there's nothing new under the sun, and the freer the flow of information, the better the chance for innovation by the 'industry' as a whole. Rotaries have been around for nearly 50 years now. Much as boingers, the real differences come from paying attention to the minutest of details and extracting the last 10%, where others might not take the time.

Brandon

 

Rob at PineApple is a Road Racer
where the rules are strict and everyone must share the same setup almost

This is "Pro" Drag Racing
here it comes down to skills and tricks you learn thru your trade..

Siguel does not let anyone see his engine
I mean no one outside of a select few

He does not want Flaco racing
denis the menace or anyone else copying his setup

That is Drag Racing
Thats why you read mag articles with "secrete spec turbo" etc when they discuss there drag cars

 

What do you mean by "What Jesus doesn't realize"? That is a pretty big assumption on what he does or does not realize. It's also a little unfair that he has not even made a statement here on the subject.
I am pretty sure that Jesus knows more about this than either of US do Brandon. At least he has a nationally renowned reputation as a racer and a builder and other nationally known racers have him do work for them.
Rest assured though that he keeps secrets to himself to have an edge though.
There are a lot of dynamics of porting other than the timing such as how the grinding beyond the initial apex surface "flows" into the port. Such as how deep you can dig in some areas without "hitting water"
There are some things that paper cannot explain in that area.
Some things like welding a book will only get you so far. You have to actually get the feel and practice, practice, practice.
Read a book and learn to play a guitar.. never works.
Believe it or not there are intangibles that I bet Rob Golden will tell you that you will find through experience and not in a book.

 

I was simply responding to you saying that Jesus bitched about you "revealing" that process, even though it's been pretty common knowledge for a while now (at least those few elementary steps). Perhaps I should have said, "What Jesus may not realize...". I know very well that there's more to it than just milling a hole - hence my "last 10%" comment... that's the "edge". As far as the port timing, my point was that (again) it's been available knowledge for quite a while now, and I feel that it's not good for the industry as a whole to keep such rudimentary "details" secret (but that's a whole other discussion).

Brandon

 

You misread what I said. It was not Jesus that PM'ed me. I can see why you said it now though
I hope no one else miread that and told Jesus!

 

Doh! I just reread that more carefully and you did say "not Jesus", didn't you! Oops. Well, I still feel the same way... apologies all around, tho

Brandon

 

It was a self-proclaimed builder that I have not heard of so I really had a hard time believing the thread would effect him. No one here ever discussed him when I did a name search which really seemed odd.
I got bitched out once for selling stuff on Ebay by another seller too cheap once and I told him if he thought I was selling the stuff (Klipsch speakers) too cheap he needed to buy them off of me and sell them I had set a "buy it now" price and had 6 sets.
People are odd about what they get pissed about.
Sometimes I am not sure if I should get mad or just laugh!

 

The NHRA Import race in Las Vegas was rained out and is rescheduled for July. The only thing good I guess is that nothing broke so he will not be occupied trying to fix the car. So we should be able to put the motor together immediately after I get the housings ready.
At least Ken got first in the qualifying rounds.
Poor Jesus has to drive all the way back to Florida.
That is the drawbacks to the sport though.

 

This is a concern I have as well. However, there are two things i see.... if the coefficiet of friction is really that much lower, it's not that much of a problem. Second, rotaries will run a surprisingly long period of time with no oil injected whatsoever before any ill effects can be noted. (we're talking in the many many thousands of miles here) Those two combined will probably more than make up the difference. I say probably, because without making an engine and driving it 200k miles and tearing it down to see if it still looks good inside like a 200k 12A should, I dunno. It would take a good 6-7 years to personally drive that many miles.

Oil injection point? Oh yeah, them newfangled motors have those....

Sure Scallawag might not have all the answers. But knowing who to ask is more important than knowing the answers anyway...

 

http://personal.riverusers.com/~yawpower/dectech.html

Port timing specs for various stock port engines as well as RB street port, J-Bridge, and MFR P-port housings.

Note that the J-Bridge has much longer timing than the MFR P-ports... the P-port opens less gradually and thus can open later. Something to think about.

We must remember that the Wankel "group" was a consortium of engineers freely sharing information, despite the fact that they knew full well that they were helping their potential competitors. Secrecy has no place in the rotary world.

 

I need to find someone after the initial tests with Ken show success that has a really long daily commute to work and may even have to use their vehicle during the day driving around as well.
There are lots of people that work in Dallas and Fort Worth but live a pretty good drive.
Someone with at least a 50 mile one way commute and local to DFW would be a great candidate. I would want to run periodic compression tests to monitor it.

This is not a promotion to sell but at some point this is the only way I know to get a high miles test in the books. Just because someone does meet the above criteria, there would still be a lot of other things such as I would not want anyone flakey that would turn around a sell the car or quit their job, etc.
I only work 23 miles from home and I am kind of disqualified in the sense that I need to be using people that do not have any allegiance to me.
In other words if something is not right they have no reason to keep quiet about it.

 

I'd be more than willing to help. Big mileage is not a concern. I am not in the business of sugar coating ****, either, if something is garbage I say so.

edit: but I'm not local to DFW... ah well.

 

I get back from college soon, I've already started buying parts to rebuild my '88 the moment I get back. All I plan to do this summer is drive around and take road trips. My school is 1600 miles away from home so I know I will be putting tons of miles on my car as soon as it's running. However I don't live near Texas but I own a compression tester and could do periodic tests myself.

PM me,
Jesse

 

Thanks for the offer but I will have to have more access to the car than that and be able to check everything myself.
There are plenty of 7's in this area and it will be a process of elimination more than anything when the time comes.

 

So lets get back to the heart of this thing for a sec

Ok so as I have been following this thread

If I have some housings that have nicks in then
when a piece of apex seal broke off

You will be able to machine the housing smooth
and then build up the surface with your technique correct?

I got dozens of housings that would be scrap candidates
Hope your process can save them LoL

 

As long as the damage is on the apex surface of the wall and does not get into any of the holes (i.e.- sparkplugs, exhaust) I machine .020" and it is anything but smooth. It is a coarse surface to allow the coating a better surface to lock onto.
If the water passages look good and there are no cracks or warpage I would do it. Even a nasty apex "crash" that is a little deep I can clean off the jagged metal and use a little filler rod to fix the hole. That part is the easiest.

So as long as it is not warped, cracked, pitted (water seal area) or damaged in an area the coating will not cover it is a candidate.

 

That is interesting. What liquid is used in ultrasonic? I know the equipment is pretty high but as much as I will use it I would get my moneys worth. Thanks for that info

 

Nope, that would be $300 US each. You get new housings for under $300 US? Damn. The best even my friends with Mazda discounts can get for those is $330 US.

 

Damn that was funny! Yes you summed it all up pretty well.

 

Yesterday the housings were not ready as promised. I needed to sleep on it because I was way too wound up about it yesterday.
I was told by the spray shop (in as nice a way as I guess was possible) how my pricing was based and how the overall shop pricing works.
When they get a "hot job" it usually involves a customer with equipment down that is costing them money because it totally stops their production and they have to pay their workers wages even if the equipment is down.
This equates to a gold mine for the spray shop. They price spraying my housings are priced at a low priority rate. The only way mine would get sprayed while a hot job is going on would be at a price I would not be willing to pay they assured me and I believe them.
Did it make sense to me? Yes. Was I still pissed? Hell yes because I am impatient.
I will get them when I get them. Which means if this works that I will be investing in spray equipment and sign up for a spray seminar.

 

Can you get that in a spray bomb?

 

"Just the facts, ma'am."

I got bothered enough tonight to get some real numbers about the stock rotor housings (the 900 vickers hardness was for the end housing). According to Mazda (860560):

"The chrome plating has a Vickers hardness of more than 1100. Furthermore, the chrome plating, which is characeristically poor in wettability with oil, is provided on its surface with minute pores and channels for effective oil retention."

Brandon