GTUser

See posts all the time about doing turbo upgrades but has anyone heard about, seen, or actually done a 13B NA install in an FD body? I know that the engine bay would have to be reworked and engine mounts rebuilt but it would give you the increased reliability of the NA 13B and the beauty of the 3rd Gen styling. Kinda Ricing in reverse. How much heavier is the FD than the FC S5?

I'm an FC owner so don't know much about FD specs. Can you remove the twin turbos and with some reprogramming make the engine work as a naturally asperated power plant?

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

the fd body is actaulyl lighter then the fd. you also woudl want to use the stock 13b-rew that comes with the fd for running it NA as well. streetporting it and maybe adding the NA rotors woudl gain you some more power, with a proper intake and exhaust setup you shoudl be lookign at ~230whp

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

How about a Renesis swap? The easiest thing would be to use the REW and make a exhaust header. Use some high compression N/A or RX-8 rotors and go nuts!

meddle

The question is why? If you are not worried about power, do the reliability mods, keep up with basic maintanence and they are really no worse than any other car. And it will still be a hell of a lot faster than the NA setup.

88IntegraLS

One of my life goals is to take a stock FD, remove the turbos, port the engine, and add a Whipple 1.6L/Rev twin screw supercharger and FMIC. I love the feel of the stock FD turbos, but turbos as a means of boosting aren't for everyone.

GTUser

Didn't know how a non-turbo renesis engine would run well without some major reprogramming since they were all turbo charged. But that would be less hassle adapting the enging bay to a 13B.

"The question is why? If you are not worried about power, do the reliability mods, keep up with basic maintanence and they are really no worse than any other car. And it will still be a hell of a lot faster than the NA setup."

Power isn't really a major issue with me, I have an 89 GTU and I can get a traffic ticket anytime I want one, don't really drag race or my livelyhood doesn't depend on how well I drive road courses. I just want it for fun and thought a FD body with a more reliable power plant would be interesting.

All the FD owners in our group tend to rebuild their engines at 90K-110K miles. But a street ported Renesis NA engine might be as reliable as the FC engines.

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

a renesis engine came in the rx8 and were all non turbo. the 13b-REW is from the fd and came twin turbo. dont confuse the two

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

All you would need to do this is a new exhaust manifold/headers and the PFC.

The PFC 20x20 tables could be converted to pure NA instead of only using the first 10 rows.

OTT

iTrader: (1)

I myself belive this to be a great idea! Or better yet, a stock carburated 12A would be the big ticket to the ultimate reliable FD. By the way, anyone want to join me with my yoga sessions? Im trying to become flexible enough to give myself fellatio. I think thats a great idea! Whos with me!?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

quicksilver_rx7

I admire a person that wants reliability out of their car, but to take power away from the FD, that just doesn't make sense to me. It will definitely be the slowest FD on the road other than the ones with blown engines.

peejay

There are certain race classes that require N/A engines in FD's.


http://216.239.37.104/translate_c?hl...language_tools

If that doesn't work: http://a-rf.com/PC/Video/index.html

I would recommend videos numbered 023, 029, and for the hell of it 021. In that order, actually.

They also have at least one N/A peripheral port FC. Remember, FC's were also turbo-only in Japan.

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

I believe that the FDs in SCCA GT3 have carbed 12A engines.

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

It has been done before. There was a thread a while back ago about someone who ran SCCA with an N/A 13B FD. By a while back, i mean it was like a year or 2 ago. Not sure if that helps....

t-von

iTrader: (8)

A year and a half ago I pulled the engine to replace the clutch. When I re-installed the engine, I forgot to tighten the clamp that holds the IC tube to the IC. This was the tube that was after the IC before the factory elbow to the thottle body. While boosting, I heard a small boom, then I lost some power. I was like what the hell! My vacuum gauge would show vacuum but wouldn't register any boost. I thought something probably came loose. Anyways while I was driving the car around, I couldn't help but notice how much power the car still had virtually in NA mode. I was shocked! The Fd still had some ***** and felt much faster than my 91 convertible. To me it makes since because the Fd's LIM & UIM flow alot better than the FC's.

I would just keep the REW and remove the turbo and install headers and add an aftermarket ecu to run the Fd NA. You would need the ecu to tune for the NA application. I think if would work out great and not be that much of a hassle.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

I know this isn't a price option but a nice naturally aspirated mild streetported 20B in a 3rd gen would make me happy. You'd still have the power of stock but the reliability of no other turbo 3rd gen. Even with the "reliability mods" to a 3rd gen, they still aren't the most reliable cars out there.

peejay

The ports are larger, too.

Aircraft guys report roughly 200hp from FD engines after they scrape the turbos off of the sides.

Put a nice header on it and put 9.7 rotors in it, yes yes good good.

(and yes it was GT3 that I was thinking of that required FDs to run N/A engines, although last I heard, they were running peripheral port 13Bs, not 12As)

Theoretically the stock ECU tuning should work just dandy if you were just to remove the turbos. It might run leaner due to the (much) reduced exhaust restriction, but this is not a bad thing. Mazda runs the cars stupid-rich when in open loop, and N/As like to run much leaner under power, say around 13-13.5:1 versus the nearly 10:1 that Mazda shoots for. You can even run N/As well leaner than stoich under full throttle, as long as you're not running at peak EGTs. So either rich of peak EGT or lean of peak EGT. It really wouldn't hurt to just pull the turbos, slap a header on it, and see how it does with the stock ECU tuning.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Hmmmm if it's that easy, and since I'm going 20b, I might as well just swap my Fd engine into my 84 GSL thats been sitting up for the past 4 years. 200 hp in a 2400 lb car should be a nice dailey driver.

norush

Hi from New Zealand I am currently running a N/A 13B std 4port turbo motor with Renisis rotors etc in an FD3 in Our Pro7 Racing FC3 & FD3 have been added to the original first generation cars in this class to perpetuate Pro7 racing in New Zealand and try to avoid parts avaliablity problems that we are sure to have with the first gen cars.

bond007

There is some confusion here.

A GT2/GT3 class car is a tube frame car with fiberglass body and NOT a production body FD3S. The engine in the car determines the class. Completely different animal than a production FD3S. A cinch to put a different engine in there since you more or less have total flexibility in mounting it.

The FD3S production body car is not eligible for racing except in a catch-all class like ITE or SPO, where it runs with everything else that isn't eligible for another class. This is hugely uncompetitive, since you could run against a tube-framed car with some "evil" engine, like a Porsche with a turbo off one of the LeMans cars, as I have seen racing in SPO in the past.

The last year a stock bodied FD3S (1995 chassis) could have been raced in SCCA is 2002, which would have been under showroom stock rules (7 years from the last produced model year, 1995). Showroom stock means that would be WITH the turbos and very limited modifications (requires you to insert safety gear).

bond007

Yes. Seen it before. You don't need to redo the mounts if you build a custom motor with a FD rear iron (would make for an interesting motor).

Folks wouldn't be going through so much trouble if they would just do the basic maintenance on the car as is. The stock powerplant is pretty darned good if taken care of. Also keep in mind the performance level is very high on the car but it costs very little in comparison. Cheap, reliable, fast...pick two. Reliable seems to be the choice that inadvertently goes out the window these days.