87GTR

iTrader: (61)

as most of you know Im doing a 20B FC.
Goal 650 ~ 700 with no NOS

I have got the body now (1 thing more to check off the list)
91T2 Black/black

ok now for the fun part. On the 20B im going to get it rebuilt cuase it been used.

the questions.....

porting:
Street Port
Street Port / Bridge Port
Full Bridge Port


Turbo:
I think Im going with T76
it flows like a T88 for 1/3 the price
anyother ideas?

ecu:
E6k + IG5
e8k ( is it going to be out soon)?

Fuel pump(s)?
Injectors(s)

Any other special parts you guys can think of?
if you where building this car what would you put
in it.

Hey how much is one of those 3rotor 13B not 20B and what the link to his site. and is it an arm and leg to ship it to Dallas?

How much for a Seqencal Trans?

Greg

Hey that HKS sequential tranny is about $7500 - $8000 and I have heard af about 3 or 4 failing at around 700 rwhp on the 3 rotor cause if the torque. The Gforce and Jerico transmission are in the $5000 range and will cost a shitload less to repair if you do end up breaking one ( www.gforcetransmissions.com ) The 3 rotor 13b is not really a production engine. Its more like a custom eshaft and 3 rotor housings from a 13b. As for a Fuel pump a aeromotive or weldon should do the trick. The t76 is what marcus acosta used to tun on his 3 rotor drag mx3. Its a nice turbo and actually the greddy is about the same price and about equal to the 76, but the 76 (what I have ) is easier to rebuild and the parts are cheaper What hot side are you gonna use on the T-76?? Crispeed told me that the T-76 on a 3 rotor was around the equivilent to a to4e on a 13b. Make sure your hotside will support the airflow of the 3 rotor. On the 3 rotor if you wanna spin the essentric shaft about 8500 you have to get it modified or a new one built. I have seen custom built eshafts for the 3 rotor for around $1500 There is a 3 rotor on the parts trader for $2500 . Porting on that engine is really a decision of what you are looking for. The bridge port will make a noticible difference on the torque curve than the the street ported version so its all about what you need. I hope to God that you have some monster tires for this car Have a blast !!!

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

check 20B motor I more thing off the list now
thanks for the great lead on the motor .

When I was in Japan was going to buy a 4wd FC from Amemiya.
it had a 20B with T88 and make 600hp on a stock block and ports and seals.


so this is where I was comming up with T76.
cause T76 ~= T88 in flow.

Im not sure what spec's to make the T76 and ideas?

Can the FC T2 tranny take 600HP? I was looking at the
gforece cluthless 5 speed. I wounder how streetable it would be.
and how hard to mate up to a 20B

Greg

A little higher

if you are staying below 8500rpms then I think tha a 1.32 exhaust housing should be big enough.

Hell No , The gforce can be purchased with a H pattern shifter wheil will make it better for street. The is a Camaro guy running around my area with the GF5R and he drives it on the street (not all the time). To install it there is an adapter plate you have to buy extra for around $400 and when you order the transmission (new or used) you just tell him that you need the imput shaft around 4" longer depending on the length of the adapter and viola. All you have to do after this is fabricate motor mounts and get a new driveshaft built custom to your specs and there you have it. A tranny that will support 1200hp!!!! ohhh, you will also need a good clutch to go along. Remember when you get the cosmos motor that the flywheel that comes on it is for an automatic and you will have to get a new flywheel and counterweight to hook it up to the manual transmission

Node

iTrader: (1)

Finally someone who gets things done on their "20b project"


a 4WD FC, yet built by RE, w/ a 20B and t88....

by chance would any pictures or other specs exist of this, and this sounds like a dream car

Good luck on your car.

mmaragos

Bigger...faster....more!

http://www.allturbos.com/p_t_thmpr_t100.htm


Sweet project. One of these days...

Can't wait to see some pics. Hint, hint.

Have you decided how aggressive of a port you are going to do?

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

ummm I do have some pics of the 4wd 20B fc. these are from a magazine take about 5 years ago. the car was built to run pikes peak but never made to the mountan.
pics

well about 3 months ago I was in japan and his shop and asked him about the car. I asked him if he could take me for ride in it. his face kinda fround and he siad I take you and show the car.

well we got the other wearhouse where he keeps all these cool cars.
I see cars undertraps on the lifts. well to my suprize we dont got inside but around the side of building. and a nasty blue trap all weathered and tires stacked on it. he points to it and says there is the car you came to see. so I took off the car like 8 tires holding down the trap.
and start pealing back the trap that is falling apart. the car is missing the most of the front clip. its a total tube car I open the door and the bars are all rusted and looking like crap.

I ask him how long has the car been here he said 5 - 6 years. I ask him can we look under the hood so he helped me take out the pins and lift it off. my face was about in shock. there was a 20B with T88 and it was all rusted and caroded like it been underwater for 5 years. made me want to cry. here in my head I had seen the pics from the magazine and had planned on buying this car from him. and it was like something just abandoned toy. we talked a little longer and I asked him if I can take a picture of it, he said sure.

in talking with him the car has a fresh rebuilt 20B stock ports T88 and Motec and stack guages. I asked him how much would he sell it to me for. he looked a me for a few min (maybe like what this guys really wants to buy this) he wanted 3mil yen ~ $20k siad with a spare motor and fresh built cleaned this motor and the spare would be 4mil

I will dig up the pic later today

Greg

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mmaragos

Damn. Talk about your fun trips.

Nice pics. Such a sweet engine, but that chick needs to fill out that skirt a little more.

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

well I dug up the picture of the car it was so painfull for me to look at I didnt even resize it so it like 500k

http://rx7.cyberosity.com/gallery/pu...d/DSC01380.JPG

Greg

***!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats a shame, you can just see how rotary performance is soo common over there that they would leave a 3 rotor T-88 engine laying around.

Node

iTrader: (1)

poor
poor
poooooooooooooor
fc this does make me sad.

mmaragos

Do you think that he would part with the engine and turbo for a reasonable price? I could find a good home for it.

Node

iTrader: (1)

save the entire car!

mmaragos

Beyond my financial capabilities at this point ($20K).

I believe it is more complicated to import a car, compared to an engine, too.

The 4WD would rock though. You would have to make it road worthly. Can you imagine lighting up all four wheels from a stop light?

SPEED_NYC

iTrader: (3)

that car is very nice, or was at least. only thing is that they didn't build that car!! that is the Rod millen 4wd 20b FC that DID compete at pikes peak in the early 90's. I have posted pics of that car on this forum before.

Rod used to have pics and video of that car on his site years ago, but he has taken them down. look at the LHD on that car, it started life as a US spec FC! I called Rod many years ago and offered to buy that car, but it was way out of my price range ($40000 with a spare tranny that millen designed and built in house).

if you look at the pictures of the 2 cars you will see that the tubes underhood are in the exact same locations, the shocks are identical, the positioning and size of the turbo are the same as well.

all they did was paint the car and add some ducting for the rad.
they should have left that car in cali, so that i could have offered Rod $10000 for it now and walk away with a sick *** FC.

you should call Rod and see if he still has that spare tranny laying arround, or ask him how much he would charge to build you a 20B 4wd set-up......

heres the pic of how the car originally looked

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

this one was was not rod millins car. Amemiya had planned on privet entry this car, but it never left japan.

Maybe the frames are the from the same builder but the power plants are diff.

I was told the car has about 400KM on it from testing in japan.

I also asked him about using the car for drag racing and he said the car could not take it.

SPEED_NYC

iTrader: (3)

what is diffrent about the powerplants?

in the pics of millens car that i lost, the engine bay is laid out exactly the same, the engine is pushed far back, and the chassis cross braces cross over the intake in the same position. the firewall is cut in the same location to allow the engine to be pushed back

look at the front shocks? you think millen and Amemiya bought the same shocks from the same manafacturer even though they are in two diffrent parts of the world?

having the chassis built by the same builder is waaay to much of a coincedence. when i spoke to Rod, he told me that everything was designed and built in house, as are all of his race cars and trucks.

there is no 4WD 20B FC chassis 'kit' avalible, any car like this has to be completely custom designed and built. having all of these similarities is nearly impossible for 2 cars that were designed and built independantly of each other.

if the chassis builder was the same for both cars than that means that the car you pictured must have left japan, for Rod millen to build it!

The only possible explanation i can see is that millen sold them the design blueprints for the car, and amemiya built the car to Millens specs.
(still highly unlikely that they would use the SAME suspension components)

this explanation still wouldn't explain why a car that has 'never left japan' is left hand drive. that car simply did not originate in japan.

and another thing, how often do you see japanese tuners use motec systems, especially 10 years ago (when the car was built)

Mr. Amemiya had the $$$ to buy the car that i always wanted from Mr. Millen and ship it to japan, where he could pass it off as his own.

If anyone still belives that these are two diffrent cars, one of us can call Rod Millen Motorsports in the morning to confirm what I suspect. is anyone curious enough? I'll make the call, but you guys may not believe the info if it comes from me.

as i said before, its still a nice car. that was my dream car 10 years ago

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

the tube frames are from the same builder. but the routing of the pipes and placment of the IC are differnet.

also rods car used 4 lug wheels and amemia use 5 lugs.

you do know that they when you have mold you can build more than 1.

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

there are lots of cars in Japan that are left hand drive that have never left japan. sometimes it driver preferance some times its lay out of the car. but the if the car was frame layout was built by the same guy.

Node

iTrader: (1)

If you call, I'll believe what you say, don't see any real reason to like on this.

SPEED_NYC

iTrader: (3)

87GTR, i noticed the 4 lug wheels on Rod's car and the intercooler piping.

IC piping can easily be changed, probably to go with the opening in the new nose they put on the car.

Rod said he used 626 hubs on his car when he did the conversion, Amemiya could have improved his original design.

by you insisting that the frame was built by the same person, and by you saying that 'once you build one, you can build another from the mold', you are suggesting that there is some kind of 4WD 20B FC 'kit' rolling off of an assembly line somewhere.

Rod Millen built a car. a one off, custom built, custom application car.
there was never any intent to mass produce these cars, there is no 'mold' as you put it. i'm sure Rod has the specs of the car, and blueprints to build another one if he desired, but i'm sure that there was no tooling developed to produce these cars in any quantity.

have you ever seen how a nascar car is built? from the computer to the welder. the chassis are hand built to the designers specs. if the chassis works well they might build another one. chassis specs are kept for repair purposes, but on any given sunday you will see 30 chevy monte carlos that look identical on the outside racing arround a track, HOWEVER, none of them are the same under the bodywork.

as i said before, Rod may have sold them the specs and info they needed to build the car, but i still doubt it. there are too many similarities.

BTW, if it is so easy to just make another car from the 'mold' lets all call Rod Millen to find out about group buy pricing on the '4WD 20B FC kit'!!!
i'll be #1 in line to buy.

i dont mean to sound like a dick, if i come across that way forgive me. i'm just a little pissed at what these guys did to my car!!

i'll call Millen in the morning and post his comments here.

c'mon 87GTR, do you really think that 2 cars built independantly would be that simmilar?

do you think that evil aviators 20B conversion is exactly the same as chito's, or Ted's, or Gregs, or yours????

these examples are of rear drive 20B FC's and i can gurantee that each of the people i listed took a diffrent approach to motor mounting, motor location, oiling(dry sump or not), cooling(using 20B water pump or 13B) ect....

the variables are endless. nobody's custom project is exactly the same as somebody elses, especially when those 2 ppl are in diffrent parts of the world.

dont you think there is a chance that they bought that car from Millen? did they tell you they built it? or did they just say they 'tested it in japan for 400km?

we'll have a definate answer tomorow, but c'mon don't you all just know i'm right?

87GTR

iTrader: (61)

can we get back to the real post.
asking for inputs on my 20B project

Thanks

Evil Aviator

That depends on what you want to do with the car. Some of my unnamed friends spent a fortune building their dream car, just to sell it at a loss in short time because they could only drive it a couple of times a year on the race track. I recommend keeping it street legal, in which case a street port would be best.

I've never seen a T88 compressor map. The turbo depends on a lot of things like what kind of boost, rpm, and fuel you plan on running. Note that a high-rpm 20B will require a high-flow competition water pump and dry sump oil system.

I don't think it matters too much. Go with what your local tuner knows. It may be good to get something that can control boost through the ECU, though.

You will need something really big like an Aeromotive or SX pump. The injectors will depend on how you run the car, which EMS you use, staging, and what you (or your tuner) are willing to put up with. I'm using an extra rail of small injectors because I'm building mine for road racing. This fuel injector calculator is fairly decent:
http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET

Feel free to PM me with any specifics on what I'm doing. If you do the opposite, then you should be good to go.

I guess you already have the engine, but here's the site:
http://www.hitman.hm/rx7.htm

$5,000 - $30,000, not including adapter plates and bellhousings where required. I'm still checking into this myself. Yes, the TII tranny will hold up for the initial NA tuning, but once you start tuning with the boost you will blow it to pieces. Even with the upgraded tranny I will have a scattershield and driveshaft hoop installed for the turbo tuning sessions. Since you are looking at the G-Force tranny, I assume that you are considering a drag race setup. Check out this street/strip Lenco ST1200 (manual and air-shifted are the same price):
http://www.lencoracing.com/st12.html

OK, B-atch! Hehehe, getting the engine and car is the easy part. Modding the car to take all that single-turbo torque is where it gets difficult. Also, those strange little 20B issues like the water pump, starter hole blocking plate, swaybar, tranny adapter, etc. get kinda tricky. Hehehe, with all the questions that he's asking right now, it's going to be a while before the car gets on the road. They are all good questions, though, so it sounds like it will be a successful project.

BTW, my EMS finally arrived. Still no software or boost controller, though.

Node

iTrader: (1)

Kinda like you?
*runs and hides from ninja throwing rotors*