Bigreddawg

Has anyone ever seen any real gains, dyno proven or track proven from porting the stock turbo's?

matt_ledbetter

Or upgraded stock turbos in general.. Pettit upgrades, SR upgrades, etc...

Bryan,

Any info or numbers on your stage 2 upgrade on the stock twins? Increase in cfm, etc? Did Turbo Specialties ever get the dyno numbers they were looking for with the upgrade?

-Matt

FEARED7

Hey Matt,
I can't see much improvement if any in stock ported turbos. It may improve flow by 10% if that. Porting the wastegate is where you get an improvement of the turbochargers holding boost more reliably.

As for upgraded turbochargers, like the ones that are listed at www.bnrsupercars.com, they are totally upgraded. As for dyno results, no one has communicated back to me on dyno numbers . The math calculates that 450 RWHP is very attainable with the HTB Compressor wheel upgrades. Plus from all the upgrades that everyone else offers, they got a bad wrap and now people are staying away from the upgrades that I offer. I haven't sold one set of upgrades since I started advertising on the forum. Bad thing b/c people are missing out on big power numbers for way less money. Matt, I will give you a great deal on a set if you have the gaul to give em some abuse!

Turbo Specialties and I are working on producing twin ball bearing IHI turbochargers. These twins will be rated to flow 600 RWHP!

Later,
Bryan

matt_ledbetter

Thanks for the quick reply... We have chatted before about the upgrade you offer and I have always been interested....

It sounds like they would offer a good increase in performance over the stock twins.

These still include the 1 year warranty, correct?

I've got a larger set of injectors to go in, so let me do that and I'll get back to you about the upgrade.

-Matt

Bigreddawg

^^^

Trout

Feared7,
I've been following this stuff since 1997 and have seen many twin upgrades that make big hp claims but never prove their hp claims, don't last, and usually cause the owners much more trouble than they are worth.

I think your turbos sound interesting but for all the labor and expense to try them, I'd like real evidence that they are reliable and will make the hp numbers.

Maybe it would be advantageous for your business to build or sponsor an FD with these turbos. Dyno numbers could be proven and after the car survives continued months of daily driving/abuse the reliability could be proven.

If someone would actually back up their power figures and prove reliability, I think they'd be swamped with orders. There is no lack of interest for high flow twins but the only real world experiences show very little increased hp, plus a lot of wasted time and money trying to use them.

Jack

matt_ledbetter

First off... I agree that ported stock turbos probably don't make a bit of difference and the stuff that Pettit has been selling probably falls in to that group.

However, the turbos sold by Turbo Specialties and BNR aren't even close to simple ported turbos.

The problem is not many people will dyno before and after a mod. Most people do turbo upgrades when they lose a turbo, so before and after dyno runs are impossible.

Brian, do you re-sleeve the shaft life Tspecialties does?

-Matt

kwikrx7

Dave at KD was had a guy who switched from stock turbos to T.E.C. upgraded twins for a little more than $1400. He dynoed at 350 rwhp with the stock twins and motor. With the new T.E.C. upgrades he dynoed at 375 rwhp at the same boost level. 25 rwhp isn't too bad.

RETed

Geez, $1,400 for about 30hp - I guess money is relative!



-Ted

vmb

well said ted!

matt_ledbetter

I disagree... Here in CA we have rolling smog stations. Get stopped with a single turbo and there is a good chance your car is going to impound.

Once you get to 350, hp is hard to come by. An extra 30-35hp for $1400 isn't a bad deal in my opinion.

-Matt

kwikrx7

I've seen some disappointing dyno numbers from people switching to a single turbo. I'm not against single at all - it's definitely more reliable than the stock setup and there's more of a power advantage. But one of the advantages of going with well built upgraded twins is not only to get more hp at the same boost level but to be able to run more boost through them reliably. stock twins can run about 15 psi and they start cooking after a while but some have run as high as 20 psi for track events and are fine. A well built and balanced pair of upgraded twins can be run at 17-18 psi. I think some of the problems with the upgrades in the past is that everything is not balanced correctly and if running sequentially there is a larger dip at transition (3-4 psi) and then a sudden blast of power on the secondary turbo that can put a lot more pressure on the shaft since it's running a bigger wheel. If run parallel or non-sequential it should be like running a medium sized single (TO4S). I've always wanted to be different and I don't know anybody on the board who is running upgrades non-sequentially so we'll see.

matt_ledbetter

So, you are getting the upgrade from BNR? Are you going to dyno before and after?

-Matt

RETed

Yeah, I've lived there for 2 years.&nbsp I also know how to get around that "rule".&nbsp It's your choice to live in the big city, but if you live in a county that's emission exempt, the smog **** can't do JACK to you with your big single and shiny front-mount IC.&nbsp I'm sorry - CA has some nasty rules on automobiles, but you you gotta learn how to play with their rules and be a little sneaky sometimes.

For $1,400, I can stuff a Sneaky Pete NOS system in the car that will produce the same amount of power for 1/3rd the cost.&nbsp I can install it where NO ONE but me will know there's a nitrous system in the vehicle.&nbsp That other cool grand buys me some really nice dinners for the rest of the month...



-Ted

matt_ledbetter

I would like to see how "sneaky" you could be running a single turbo when they roll you up on the back of the mobile smog station complete with inspectors.

I agree there are cheaper ways to make horsepower. I could just throw a big nitrous kit on my car and be done with it, but thats not my choice.

If the BNR upgrades can pull 450hp, I think they will be well worth the $1800 or whatever he charges for them. If they pull 400hp with less stress and heat, I think they are still worth the money.

my 2 cents...

-Matt
'93 Touring
'87 Turbo II

kwikrx7

I would like to dyno before to see where I'm at except my primary turbo has a bad seal or bearing and is not operating effieciently. At idle it doesn't even spin at all but when you crank up the throttle it will start spinning. I don't have hardly any low-end power because of this. I am going with BNRs turbos to give him a chance to get his business going - I'll be talking with him tomorrow. So if I did dyno before and after it would be a tremendous gain since I'm probably down 30-40 rwhp now with the bad primary. I would like to have 380-400 rwhp at 14-15 psi. There's a guy with the same exact mods as my car that dynoed at 368 rwhp at 15 psi with stock twins on KDRs dyno and datalogit tuning. I do plan to dyno after about 500 miles on the new turbos with datalogit tuning at KDR and I'll post the dyno sheets. With correctly working stock turbos I should be around 350-360 rwhp at 13-15 psi. Still won't be for a few months till I get dynoed though.

RETed

You're obviously ignorant of the CARB smog laws in the state of California.

Do you realize that not ALL counties in the state of California require smog certificates?&nbsp If you reside on one of these exempt counties, the state of California nor any law enforcement agency in California can fine or penalize you for your vehicle; your registration clearly states "SMOG EXEMPT" on it.

They pull you over - flash your SMOG EXEMPT reg, and they can't do jack **** to you...

This is using the law on your side.



-Ted

matt_ledbetter

Don't be an ***...

I'm not ignorant of the laws, I just like to speak of my current situation instead of using someone else as my example. The fact that counties in CA or anywhere in the US don't require a smog check, doesn't do me a bit of good. Could I cheat the system a bit and register in a different county? Sure.. Do I want to? Not especially...

The FACT is, my county has a rolling smog station... If you live in a county that doesn't even have a smog check, good for you.

Back to the original post and "my opinion"... Once you get to 350 rwhp, I think picking up another 25 for $1400 is a pretty good deal. When you consider its creating that HP with less stress, it even sounds better to me. If you want to use nitrous, fine... eventually you will get to that $1800 dollar amount as well. I think the BNR upgrades will produce better numbers, but we'll wait and see.

-Matt

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Bob,
KDR ported my wastegate and turbo's. Did it help? I doubt it. They already spool fast. I didn't see a change. I ran 16-17psi at the track and as you know I was pretty consistant, running high 11's.
As for upgrading the twins with the internals. Nobody has done it with any prolonged reliability. So do yourself a favor and save for a single....

Wade

iTrader: (1)

Apples and oranges. Nitrous isn't on all the time. And if you use it every time you floor it you will be refilling your bottle as often as you buy gas. If you use a sneaky pete you will be refilling it even more often. Assuming all you do is straight line highway races or drag strip, N2O might be for you. The road racers rarely use it, what good would it do them?

It's hard to give a fair comparison between something like N20 and a turbo upgrade dollar per dollar... Just as it really isn't fair to compare cars. Hoskinson spent $2k on a Turbo II and ran 13.4 @ 105, does that mean people who have $10,000 cars should have 1250 hp instead of 250? Don't we wish.

Wade