SPOautos

I also found that EWP controller but on a different site. If you check out that site I linked to earlier with the airplane guys he was using a pump with that same EWP controller on it. Its called a Davis Craig pump. Here is all the link I have on it....

The airplane guys page that shows the pump and some into on it with a 13B adapter
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/1...ry_engine1.htm

Here is the Davis Craig site that shows thier pump along with the EWP controller
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=8
Here is a write up about the pump on teh Davis Craig site, which btw I leaned introduced the first electric fan for automobils.

I did have the link to the EWP site which is the parent company of Davis Craig but now I cant find thier site.

The more I read about that pump the more I like it. The flow volume seems lower than some of the other pumps but a lot of those are prob designed for a 500 cubic inch race engine plus since they dont list the volume along with the pressure the number is meaningless. For all we know that could be the volume of it flowing our into a sink wide open and no pressure.

Stephen

Dwood432

Thanks for the info. I actually was at UPS earlier today shipping my Meziere 336 water pump back to Summit. I kept the Meziere adaptor to the block. You can see it on my engine here https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=71270 The Davis Craig pump and controller definitely seems like best option for a street driven car. I also love the fact that the controller can be programmed to run the pump after shutdown to prevent heat soak.

glemmers

My two cents,

Running the engine at all without the water pump is a bad idea. The pressures in the engine block with the pump running is probably at least 20-30 psid higher than the radiator cap pressure. The higher the flow rate, the higher the pressure (can see how a high flow pump would be a good thing?) This significantly raises the boiling point in the engine. Also, without coolant flow through the engine, hot spots will cause localized boiling. If this occurs, very little heat transfer to the coolant occurs and local thermal runaway is imminent.

Believe it or not, the thermostat provides a lot of back pressure on the cooling system. Eliminating it lowers pressures in the engine, and is why a lot of people have over heating problems without them.

My cooling system project began by wanting to keep the water pump and fans running after turning the engine off to remove to the horrendous heat-soak back issue on these cars. I have a rear stationary gear o-ring, from my car, that is baked hard as plastic from soak back. I was going to splice the Meziere pump into the lower radiator hose and buy a controller for the fans and pump. Six months later, I have scrapped the entire OEM setup because to all the same issues you guys are asking about. I have also designed a PWM fan controller circuit board that can also switch on the water pump, and keep everything running after shutdown until the system reached a preset temp, (I could not find anything in the aftermarket that had these features). My winter project is to build it.

Glenn

glemmers

Oh, I forgot to mention one interestin fact, the radiator cap location sets te base pressure in the cooling system. On cars with the AST removed, the cap is relocated before the radiator. They will then have lower pressure in the engine block than cars with an AST.

SPOautos

Wouldnt turning the pump off and cutting off flow be very similar to the closing of a termostat?

I think I like the Davis Craig pump with the controller. I dont think it ever completely shuts off, I think it just slows down and speeds up to maintain constant temperature.

The only problem for me is I really wanted to just totally ditch the stock waterpump and housing and do basically what Dwood432 pic shows with the AN adapter. If your use the EWP controller with the Davis pump it requires a place for a thermostate. The way the EWP's sensor works is its shaped like a thermostate and sits where the stock thermostate sits which means I'd have to either bad up something pretty crazy OR keep the thermostate housing. Also, the Davis pump doesnt have AN fittings.

Stephen

Dwood432

The Meziere water pump adaptor is not for AN fittings. You can use AN fittings with it, if you get an AN to NPT adaptor. Meziere sells fittings for the adaptor plate that allow you to keep rubber-cooling hose.


What’s stopping you from ditching the stock water pump assembly? Its what I am doing.


The Davis Craig setup does not require a thermostat. If you use just the water pump, then it requires a thermostat. If you use their water pump and water pump controller you can run without a thermostat (the controller will act as a thermostat).


The thermal switch does not have to be used in the stock water pump housing. You can use either part number 0401 or 0402 as a thermal switch with the electric water pump http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=15
I talked to a rep for a the American distributor for Davies Craig, and he told me that the thermal switch gets placed inline as close to the block as you can put it. Which for me would work perfect with the Meziere adaptor plate.

SPOautos

You might want to double chech with the guy and make sure because the installation manual doesnt say anything about that. Here is a link to the manual....

http://www.daviescraig.com.au/docume...STRUCTIONS.pdf

If you scroll down to "Installing EWP Controller Sensor" you'll see what I'm talking about.

Hopefully your guy is right and they do have another sensor that will work besides this one. My next question would be can you swap out to the other sensor for free or do you have to buy it seperate cause this sensor comes with the EWP and it doesnt say anything aobut being able to choose what sensor comes with it.

I'll probably use the adapter that Keith sells since it uses AN fittings. He also has a pump but it doesnt come with any form of controller. Here is a link if you want to scroll down....

http://www.kgparts.com/jay-tech.htm

Stephen

SPOautos

Also.... Dwood432 what do you plan on doing with the alt? You relocating it to the side of the engine? Have you found any brackets, kits, ect that will work?

Marcel Burkett

Another reason why I think hollowing out the original water pump housing is best , apart from the "bling " factor , I see no other benefits in using the adapter , especially on a street car . Having to relocate the alternator , fabricate a bracket (correctly!) and loosing the a/c and power steering isn't an attractive idea. I use 255 tyres in front and its very hard to turn them when I'm at a stand still , having the "creature comforts" only improves the whole driving experience for me !!
By the way , there's one thing I have been thinking about , with the high flow pump (55GPM) and a free flow system , would the residance time be enough ??? , ie . would the hot water stay in the radiator long enough to be cooled , or will there just be hot water going around and around without dropping any heat in the rad. ? , if the thermostat is in place , there may be some resistance in the circuit , slowing the flow and allowing a longer time within the radiator . ??? , just a thought.

SPOautos

In a earlier post of mine I questioned the 55gpm figure and was saying since it doesnt indicate pressure then there is no way to know if its a real world figure or not. WELL, I talked to a tech from Stewart Components which sells many high end mechanical water pumps as well as a 55gpm electric water pump. They suggested if I were to run thier electric water pump that I should run 2 if it was going to totally replace my mech pump. I told him that 55gpm is MUCH MUCH more than the stock pump, so why would I need 2 of them. Here is his exact quote........

"The 55gpm is free flow or non-restricted flow "

So basically that is exactly what I thought, its 55gpm while being dumped into a sink haha


Stephen

SPOautos

Ok, I just emailed Davis Craig to find out the test parameters of thier pump. I'm hoping since its only rated at 22gpm that its more of a real world number. Also I noticed the inlets and outlets are bolt on so I can just make a flang with AN fittings and I should be good there.

Here is my next bit of cool info. I just got done talking to a guy with a 3rd gen race car thats in the middle of making a alt relocation kit to put it on the side of the engine similar to whati is in that pic I posted. He said he'd make more than one if a couple people would be interested. He's working on getting me a price.

Stephen

Mr. Stock

I would be interested in one if the price is reasonable.

Marcel Burkett

How about a pisture and a price !!!

SPOautos

Yea, I'll ask him for a pic too.

Mr. Stock

Semi-off-topic:

I think that people who do not have power steering and/or A/C are the ones that would be interested in this mod of moving the alternator to a lower position to decrease the center of gravity. May want to start another thread, perhaps in the third gen or race tech section, to see if there are more people interested in this mod other than people who are considering the electric water pump.

Dwood432

Have you priced out AN fittings (-16) for your cooling system? They’re pretty expensive. Why not just go with rubber/silicon? Where do you plan on mounting the thermo switch if you have AN fittings and SS braided lines?

If your guy makes a quality bracket I would definitely be interested.

Dwood432

From Davies-Craig's web site "0401 Thermatic Fan Switch – This mechanical switch is located next to the radiator and a copper probe is mounted inside the radiator hose to detect the cooling system temperature. The thermal switch is adjustable from 80 degC to 115 degC and is connected to the ignition circuit for operation. The kit contains the thermal switch, mounting bracket a length of wire connectors and a rubber seal. This switch is suitable for operation with 12 and 24 Volt systems."

They say "this mechanical switch is located next to the radiator(im sure you could change the location) and a copper probe is mounted inside the radiator hose to detect the cooling system temperature."

Dwood432

Yes I would relocate the alt to the passenger side of the front cover. As far as brackets and kits go, nobody makes a kit that I know of(I would be very surprised if someone did), but I have seen a couple of home made variations.


http://www.rxtuner.com/farticles/CYM...oftheMonth.pdf If you scroll down to the engine picture (its hard to make out but....) it looks like he has a turn-buckle to adjust belt tension, and then somehow has another bracket on the bottom of the alternator.

I uploaded two pics that I could find with adaptors or stock water pump housings with AN fittings. I know I have some more, I will look for them and post them.


Dave

Dwood432

Here are a couple more.

Dwood432

one last pic

Mr. Stock

How about a source for the main pulley that is made just for the belt going to the alternator? Anybody know?

Dwood432

http://www.unorthodoxracing.com/mazda_rx7.html , The ultra R. Great pulley, but it is a difficult install.

SPOautos

Dwood432 - do you know what the ID of that adapter plate on your block is? I know its not AN but I was looking at -16AN which is 1" but the hose that works with it will have a ID of 7/8". Does everyone agree that 7/8ID hose should be enough, eventhough its smaller than stock? I've looked around and most AN fittings and cooling system hardware for AN fittings all supports -16 but with it being smaller than stock it just has me a little concerned.

BTW - your engine looks great with that adapter and pulley on it. And thanks for all the pics!

Stephen

Marcel Burkett

The problem with overheating after thermostat removal can be solved by plugging the recirculation hole located inside the housing where the lower disc of the thermostat sits. As for having my fans and the pump run after shutdown , I have to install a new alarm, lots of them have a "turbo timer" type function , and programmable outputs that can be used to ground control relays for a specified amounts of time , I can simply tie it into the fan and pump relay and have the alarm do it for me.

Marcel Burkett

Why did you return the pump ?