Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Long title eh'?

I'm building an Aux Ported S5 13B for my soon to be daily driver. After talking to a few people about the port job... and the large powerband it will have (functioning 6-Port system on an Aux Port) I'd like a higher redline.

Now, I'm not talking any crazy race-only stuff (rotors lightened to almost nothing, dry-sump system, etc) but just enough where I can safely do every bit of my stock tach's redline. ~9.5-10K

My plans WERE (on top of the engine porting)...

-RB Type I Hardened Stationary Gears; not sure what to do about the rear bearing though...
-Deep Groove Rotor Bearings
-Clearanced Rotors

When it came to oil system mods, I'm not really sure what will be needed for the RPM's I want to reach. My main questions are...

Is there any difference between models' oil pumps and regulators (N/A, TII, TT)? Are there any con's to using 3-window bearings on a street car? And last, but far from least, is there anything you'd reccomend doing to this engine?

~Colby; seriously, I need to know; not a newbie post...

annuerysm

Im also considering an Aux port, the only question I can answer confidently is that a TII oil pump is larger, 17mm rotor instead of 11mm for NA I believe.

also for my Aux bridge project I'm seriously considering getting a scattershield or blanket for a little piece of mind.
-Dan

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iTrader: (2)

Is there only 1 person in here that has delt, or knows anything about performance N/A's???

karism

Use a tii oil pump(larger volume)
A pressure relieve valve,spaced to 6mm.
Port your oil pasages.
The hardened stationary gears will help alot.I would suggest that you balance the whole rotating assembly as well,(rotors,eccentric shaft,counter weights,flywheel)
Clearancing.

I suggest that you do as much as possible..what budget you working on ?

Are you using carbon apex seals ? If not,i would suggest you dont go higher than 8500,they do break!

Yes i have built race motors before,and no there is no cheap way out.

:-)
karis

(i hate Turbo engines)

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iTrader: (2)

My budget is pretty low. I just rebuilt my engine, and the frount housing cracked externally (as far as we can tell, someone dropped it and it cracked due to heat cycles). I'll do enough to keep the engine safe for the time I'm at high enough RPM to warrant it. I doubt I'll go into the upper RPM (past stock redline) too much, so the $400 cost of balancing my rotating assembly doesn't seem that cost-effective. Hell, I'm getting my engine ported professionally for under $100 (it pays to know people... that know people )

Care to go into any more detail about porting the oil passages, and spacing the pressure releif valve?

Also, any difference in the TII and N/A Oil Pressure Regulator? ~Colby

karism

You can run stock seals,and go to 8.5k rpm,but that the limit.

The passages leading to and from your oil cooler needs to be increased in size,especially the one by the oil pump,precise dimensions i cant give you,seeing that i look at the passages and then enlarge them,but not to much,that increased pressure will cause problems.

You will need a relieve valve thats head can screw off.It was used in the 70`s Capellas.(the attached pic shows the one that is NOT to be used,they cant be spaced)

You screw open the valve,and insert a nut that is 6mm thick (0.23") infront of the spring(the side of the spring that doesnt screw off)This will increase the spring rate,that will up the relieve pressure.NOTE :the spacer has to have a hole in it for the oil to flow through!

The differce between the Tii and NA valves are pressure.The turbo one relieves at higher pressure.

I mostley space the valves for stock motors as well,just a bit of precaution.

My engine gave a pressure of 8.5 bar last night when i started my engine,with cold oil.

I would rather go with 3 windows bearings,if i were you,and hardened stasionary gears.

Have a look in the First gen section.I have a thread there called "j-bridge",and also cheese port.

Hope i answered some questions ?
Karis

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

I bought my shimmed oil relief valve from Hayes Rotary for about $30. You can modify any 1st or 2nd gen valve. It is just a shim that keeps it open a little farther. I have never ported the oil lines and never had a problem. I do use the T-II pump. The easiest way to get hardened gears is to have someone harden them by cryotreating them. If you want contact info for a place that does it PM me. You can get a rear end gear cryotreated for only $40 so it can't be much to do stationary gears. Hell, just do the whole motor. A hardened eccentric shaft probably wouldn't flex as much. Oh yeah I don't believe in carbon apex seals. Your car will be driven on the street. Even if your good to them they may still only last 25000 miles or so before they are just plain worn out. You said you were on a budget. If you drive as much as I do thats only a year of driving. TURBOSTREETFIGHTER was using stock 2 mm seals on a half bridgeport at 26 psi at 9500 rpm!!!! You'll be fine.

Cheers!

i'm not sure of NA cars but I know FD and FC S5 TII share the same rotors.

Therefore you can use their stationary gears, and bearings which are essentially 3 window bearings.

i would also install the 2 cycle oil adapter for the MOP, see rotaryaviation.com

This will allow you to run synthetic, which is a good idea in my opinion.

Nex install the racing beat Oil pressure regualotor good ofor 85 psi, a oil pres gauge.

Good luck.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Actualy the S5 T-II and the 3rd gen do not use the same rotors even though they do weigh the same and have the same compression ratio. Mazda changed the way they machined out the rotor recess.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Ok, so "Hardened" stationary gears are just... cryotreated? That's it? Shiiiiit! I can get that done in springfield for (I'm SURE) less than the $200+ for new stationarys. Probably get the E-Shaft done while I'm at it.

Amy benefit to doing that to any other parts?

I'm using Atkins 2pc. Seals from my last rebuild on this engine (rebuild had less than 100 miles on it)

*checking karism's posts now*

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iTrader: (2)

So this regulator...

Is a stock _______ regulator w/ a 6mm nut on it?

karism

Yes! thats the right one!You unscrew the front,and place the spacer inside.

Atkins seals will work fine,and can obviously be used again.
What state are your sidehousings in ?

Nope,there is no benefit from hardening the other parts inside the engine,except stationary gear and eccentric shaft.

Karis

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iTrader: (2)

My front housing is the one that cracked; as far as I know, the others are fine (I haven't torn the engine down yet... no point to until I can do something with the parts)

That regulator is a.... Capella? Sorry, but I'm not familiar with the car. Any other info on the regulator would be helpful.

Question about your "cheese" port. Why didn't you just bridge the housings, but instead of 1 large bridge, make 3 smaller bridges of equal size, seperated by the width of the bridge (~3-5mm); then, knife-edge those mini-bridges?

Still open to anyone elses input as well.

karism

Capella,thats right!They were made in the 70`s,and came out with single distributor 12A`s.

I have had many problems with bridgeport,most of them had the bridges cracked.(never in the same place).
According to calculations,the holes i made will flow the closest to the "real bridgeport".

If you made the holes fewer and wider spaced,you will have about 10hp more than a streetport,with the lumpy idle and almost gain up top.(so you will loose out on all accounts)

I presume you looked at the pic that i posted? on the "j-bridge" thread ?

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

from the discription of the flow characteristics... you must be confused about the kind of port I suggested. Let me illustrate.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

from the discription of the flow characteristics... you must be confused about the kind of port I suggested. Let me illustrate.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

With your discription of the flow characteristics, you must have my suggestion confused with something else; let me illustrate...

karism

Thats an interesting idea,i think it would work,how good it will work, i`am not sure of.


I think the gains will be the same,you have less bigger holes,wider spaced.I have more smaller holes,closely spaced.

Something like this ?

What type of porting do you think you will be running ?

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

Same concept as that, but a little more metal supporting the bridge, and you wouldn't need to go into the rotor housings. You could probably get away with just 2 mini-bridges. Multiple bridges or holes would streach the life of the engine, or at least that's the hope.

My porting will be very close to this...
I say very close, and not exactaly, because I've yet to talk to the guy who I intend to have port my engine about it.

Also, I can't find anything, anyWHERE about the Capella. Looks like I'll just get a regulator from Hayes, or dish out the $$$ that RB wants.

karism

Ok,so in youll be runnin a "bridge 6 port" .If i can call it that.

I`am trying to think what i was called in America.Over here it was the Capella..maybe it was the lateron Rx2`s ?

From where did you get the pic of the regulator ?Thats the precise right one to use.Somewhere there must be one!

Is $90 alot to pay for a regulator ?

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

$90 is a lot... when you can get it for $20.

RotaryGod, care to go into any more detail about the OPR you got from Hayes? Which of the 2 above regulators does it look like? What exactally did you order from Hayes? Etc.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

You can shim any RX-7 regulator. That's what Hayes sells and its what I'm using. It looks just like the one I originally had when the engine was stock. It is something like $30 or $35. I think Racing Beat or Mazdatrix actually have the instructions on how to do it yourself in one of their catalogs. I can't remeber which one but since they added internet sites I haven't looked through the catalogs anymore. The 3rd gens bypass much higher than all the previous models. Even higher than the shimmed valves. This is why many of them need restrictor pellets in the oil lines. Too much pressure kills their turbo bearings on single upgrades.

karism

Liquid Anarchy:
So...what have you decided on doing about the pressure regulator ?

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

I'm going to order the Racing Beat catalog when I get back from my trip to North Carolina, then make the decision based on the info the catalog gives. If I don't like it, or think it's ghetto... it won't happen.

If anyone wants to scan the page of the catalog so I can decide sooner, it would be appreciated.

fatboy7

IIRC the Capella is the RX-2 in the states...