jamesdean

doesnt pinneapple racing have a dogbox set up for fd trannies??? or did I read their site wrong

MikeC

Maybe, but some people like me wouldn't dream of butchering such a classic.

mcfly

Sorry to be dusting this off(search is for a reason) but Redrx7 did you ever get this in and use it?


And did anyone know what the life span of the guru box would be at the drag strip/street.

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

He sold his car some time ago and I don't think he ever installed the tranny in the first place. Also, I still don't think there are too many people out there running them due to the cost so real world unbiased reviews are almost non-existent.

pluto

I ran the Guru tranny in my drag car for a few months. Its too loud for street use and I also have problem downshifting while driving on the street, it wants to grind the gears (since it doesn't have any synchros). 1st gear was a little too tall but other than that, I ran my highest mph with it.

mcfly

good to know,

i think i will likly take the guru box route or a getrag mk4 6 speed.

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

I just ordered the PPG dog box which is supposed to be built far superior than the Guru, not to mention rated for alot more torque. Rated at 800lbs of rwtq.

http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/html/products.htm

This is also why you can't buy a Guru for about 6months. They are redesigning the tranny totally.

Also the gear ratios are better for drag racing with the PPG over the Guru.

13b4me

I think I would go with the Gertrag Supra tranny...

CMonakar

I downloaded the video on the PPG site. It sounds horrible! Ernie, why not get a built T56 with double/triple syncros?

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

You guys are missing the point. And the reason it sounds that way is because thats the way a "DOGBOX" sounds like guys. "NO SYNCROS". Also, running the street class I have to retain the stock gear box, hense this is the best money can buy. Yes, the GForce would be much cheaper but is not rated for the torque I make. Synro's hurt your et's.
And the Supra tranny would not fit. The gear selector would be 6" to far back. Already tried...lol...

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

The "dogbox," as in the dog rings (which replace the synchros) is not what makes the whining noise. It is the straight cut gears that whine. Straight cut gears are far superior in strength than spiral cut gears that come in any and every production car.

There is a T-56 conversion out there that replaces the synchros in gears 1-4 with what are essentially dog rings but retain the quieter spiral cut gears. They call it faceplating. You sacrifice strength in the the actual gears with this design but it is quiet and you get the benefit of the noise reduction as with factory transmissions. Besides T-56 have been running 9's all day with no problems. Also, sure would be nice having a 5th and 6th gear for economy. The tranny will shift "almost" as quick as a true dog-ring tranny with straight cut gears, at least through the converted 1st - 4th gears. No clutchless upshifts with this tranny either. I haven't looked into what is involved with the possibility of using one of these with a rotary but anything can be done.
http://www.libertysgears.com/faceplate.htm


I have a friend running this in his LS1 converted 240z.
He shifts mad quick, yo

Ernie, that car is a monster.
Can't wait for the 20b in it.

mcfly

there goes the getrag option.

6 inches is alot.

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

I tell my wife the same thing!

gnx7

iTrader: (10)

They have some T-56's running high 8's in streetable 3500lb twin turbo Vipers with a/c and full stereo systems. They certainly don't shift as nice as an S2000 tranny.... but they are very very stout... especially in a sub 3000lb RX-7.

You stole my link Dave!

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Ok, I just went through this WHOLE thread, and unfortunately there's a LOT of misinformation running around. So lemme share w/ you guys what FACTS I've substantiated DIRECTLY from the SOURCE. No second guessing, no guesstimating, no assumtions. All precise info.

While this guy shared a ton of good info, he's smoking CRACK when it comes to the torque capacity of the tranny. As per Guru themselves, they kept on insisting that they have 550 hp racecars that use it all day long. Good for them, but I need TORQUE capacities, b/c that's what breaks trannys. When I finally pushed 'em for it, they emailed me back w/ a high 300s/low 400s ft. lbs. of torque. I wish I still had the email (it was only about a month ago), but I was SHOCKED at how low the torque rating is. Sounds about right for a 550 hp FD.

Actually, HKS makes a sequential 6-speed dogbox, and it's about $7500 + shipping costs from Japan.

Hate to break it to ya Ernie, but unless you're buying a non-RX-7 application that I haven't heard of, you're in for a HUGE surprise. PPG, while it's good, has had some problems w/ their dog boxes in racing, and they recently revamped them. Supposedly those problems were fixed...but I don't have enough feedback to know for sure.

As for power ratings, PPG - well not PPG, b/c the Mazda close gear set and dogbox were bought from PPG by L F Performance of Western Australia (www.lfperformance.com.au) and thus is sold exclusively through them or through a distributor who in turn buys it from them.

L F Performance also told me the schpeel about 550 hp racecars, and when I pushed for a torque rating (this time I still have the email ) I got this response:

"The transmissions are limited by case design. Our motors on the engine dynos (bearing in mind we talk long distance racing motors here) turn 550hp at 6,700rpm, max torque from these run through 3,700 to 6,500 @ 380 ft lbs. These are single roller turbo, 13B Bridgeport motors."

So needless to say, I'll pass on that. Doesn't matter if the gears actually will withstand 800 ft lbs of torque (although they certainly don't claim this). They do include w/ the close ratio dogbox (ie if you buy the entire tranny from them) a better input shaft, selectors, forks and short shifter assembly. The shifter is quite sophisticated and includes adjustable detente's (both ways), and the box itself has a reverse lockout mechanism (again, only if you buy the completed unit). BUT, they don't include an upgraded output shaft, which is the next weakest link.

I fear that you've been misled by what the WRX crew has been exclaiming (the 800 ft lb of torque straight cut gears they offer). Maybe the WRX tranny is strong enough as it is to withstand that power, but in our case, how tough the gears are is inconsequential, if the box itself won't hold up to that kind of power. This guy's point was on the money: https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...5&postcount=78

Sounds like they may have something interesting in store

IIRC, the gears from Guru were custom ie you can request the gear ratios you want.

I've also explored the Os Giken Close Gear Set. It comes w/ an upgraded input shaft, but the gears are also rated for some whimpy 380 ft lbs of torque IIRC.

What I don't get is, how these aftermarket gear sets and even dogboxes are rated for LESS torque than the stock tranny can handle?! It seems the stocker can handle 550 ft lbs of torque...that's just about it's limit. And Ivan broke his stock tranny at 780 rwhp and 670 ft lbs of torque (it was on the dyno). https://www.rx7club.com/20b-forum-95/damaged-tranny-my-20b-today-368723/

I'm currently exploring the last lead I have: Holinger dogboxes. It's gonna require some custom work, but they make full all-out race trannies. They're somewhat on the affordable side (about $10K). The only thing comparable that I've found is the Weismann 5-speed transmission that RacingBeat used on their 240mph FD, but it's $30k (yea, just the tranny).

My $0.02,
~Ramy

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Ramy,
I'll keep ya posted on my results, but to be honest, I've seen the tranny Im getting. Input/output/main shaft, and all the gears are alot "beefier" (for lack of a better word) than the stock FD, so Im sure it'll hold much longer than the stocker.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

I really hope so Ernie. Cuz you have a BEAST of a car, and I don't have to worry anywhere NEARLY as much as you do, as road courses don't destroy trannys anywhere *near* to what a 600rwhp launch at 8,000 rpm does

Oh and I just hope that you know my intentions are pure; not trying to burst anyone's bubble. But I was just conversing with PPG literally YESTERDAY and the day before hehe. I specifically asked about the output shaft. They said it's stock. But the input shaft is upgraded. And they made no mention of the main shaft. And this was in reference to the complete dogbox they sell.

Either way, I'm VERY interested to check out the tranny when it comes in and when it's installed, if you don't mind

~Ramy

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Ernie...I swear I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I just came across this while searching for something completely unrelated... From https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=30:

fcdrifter13

Most new transmissions have syncs, and most are accually switching over to automatic, or a type of paddle shift.

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Bro, your not raining on my parade. Anything could have happened to cause that especially faulty installation. I already know a friend of mine that has a supra putting down over 1000rwhp with a PPG for over a year with countless passes with no failure rate. Also, the Supra's put down a **** load more torque than we do too. Also, I checked, you said they only upgraded the input shaft, but thats not true. Both the input and output shaft are upgraded as is every other part. Time will tell, but I have no worries and one thing is for sure, this tranny us MUCH better than the stocker.
And I have other things in the oven to prevent drivetrain failure. Peter Ferrell told Ray what he did to his diff and other parts to make them more "bullet proof". I know nothing is, but I will try my best.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Ernie, that sounds great. And you're right, it'll obviously be better than the stock tranny.

I'm real curious who told you about the input & output shafts? Because I specifically asked about that. In fact, do you mind sharing who you spoke to? Because maybe the person I spoke to isn't as knowledgeable... if they now do warranty for much higher power levels, and have all the weak points of the tranny addressed, I'd be very interested in it as well

~Ramy

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Call 240-683-1000
Company: Andrewtech Automotive
Gaithersburg, Md
Ask for Russell Leach.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Russell wasn't in when I called; the guy I spoke w/ told me they had never seen or ordered a Mazda dogbox before, but they may come with upgraded input and output shafts...but he wasn't sure. That's in contrast to Kim Ledger's statement to me via email (who's the rep at LF Performance itself), that it only came with an upgraded input shaft, not the output.

The guy I spoke w/ at Andrewtech also told me that PPG has never and will not state torque or general power limits for its gears or boxes due to liability reasons. So I asked if that meant there's essentially no warranty on them? He said yep, no warranty whatsoever. KIm Ledger says their FD's run 380 ft. lbs of torque on them all day long. Not exactly a lot of power.

So I'm not sure what to make of it lol. Should I still call back and talk to Russell? I'd be very surprised if he had anything different to say, since again, they source them from LF Performance, who bought the rights to the Mazda dogbox from PPG, and Kim Ledger from LF Performance is the one who gave me the info I passed on to you.

~Ramy

PS: I don't understand how the 20B game's been around for SO long, but there's never been one end-all solution when it comes to trannys to date...

Jay7 Nyc

iTrader: (3)

Ernie, did you test out your new ppg tranny on the track yet launching at alteast 7k?

Jay7..

ErnieT

iTrader: (2)

Naa, I havn't went to the track yet. Breaking everything in. Side note: PPG tranny originally did NOT come with an upgraded output/main shaft, BUT I raised such a stink, they are now making them. Andrewtech sent a stock output shaft for PPG to make. They are actually making two. One of which will go in my PPG tranny and the other Im putting in a stock tranny since thats the weak link. Should be fun this spring. This tranny is sick. I can yank as fast as I can and it just goes in like butter.