Lasse wankel

Made some testing today on a N/A PP motor. here are some specs: 9:0 cr rotors w/ 2mm Hurley apex.
51mm IDA carb w/43mm chokes. 54mm idia headers 600mm long. Distriburless ignition w/4 coils.
First pulls were in the 256-259hp range w/ 46mm chokes, but when switching to 43mm chokes power climb to 264-266hp. Then made somé tuning w/ignition, went from 20 to 21 degr and made 272 hp. Last i made some 5 degr increase in trailing split now 5 degr apart L-T power output 276.8hp! I was done for the day. Right now i wonder how much i can safely tune L and T before knock and pinging occurs? Any help would be nice. I use Shell 98 octane Swedish fuel w/ 1:100 oil mix. Going back to dyno more on Tuesday w/ a samaller 47mm equel length headers.

911GT2

Thats damn good power from a N/A motor. Well done!

kyle@insight

damn that's pretty insane! Any reason why you didnt go higher compression?

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Thats pretty good! Most my car made was 258rwhp. Good numbers! CJ

Rotortuner

Is this RWHP or was this on an engine dyno? Also I was curous as to the carb calibrations(which emulsion tubes, air and fuel jets)? The 43mm chokes are supposed to work really well and it shows that it worked well for you too. Your timing sounds really good. You will probably gain more by going with some cold race plugs, I talked with one guy who said he got another 10hp by going from 9 heat range up to a 10.5 or 11. Those are really cold but it does add some pwr. Where is your power falling in the rpm band? Shortening the intake leangth might get a little too, where is that at now? I know lots of questions but im just trying to see where your at and where your starting. Is it a slip on manifold or bolt on? are these factory or hommade?


CJG

Wargasm

Very good work and thank you for documenting which combinations had what effect on power!

I'm particularly interested to find out if running MORE split would let you run a little more Leading plug advance and get you more power.

Brian

Lasse wankel

Thanks for the response on the engine! Here are some more facts about the engine. Didn't find any 9:7c:r rotors new ones are to expensive.This is flywheel hp on an engine dyno. F-7 E-tube w/250main 150 air jet. 1mm fuel squirters. NGK Bur9EQ plugs. Max hp at 8400rpm torque 240nM or 177lb/ft@7700. Inlet manifold is 6" long and is bolted to the rotor housings. Housings are from a 1989model and is done by myself. Max exhaust temperature ai around 840-860celsius@8800-9000 rpm.
Try to test some more ignition tests w/more or less split. Keep you posted when i have dyno'd again.

Rotortuner

Thanks for the more info. I will look up some more on timing stuff. You should run some colder race plugs. you should gain 5-10hp by going another heat range and a half colder to 10.5 or so.

CJG

Lasse wankel

Just came back from the dyno and here's some numbers. Soory to say but the hp went back from 276 to 270 hp whenswitching to 47mm primaries. First pull for the day was only 262 hp but i lean out with bigger air jets now 165 and 1 more degree in the whole ignition curve then i had 270 hp. But the big improvement was in the 4500-7500rpm band where it really picked up some hp.
54mm primaries 5500rpm: 152hp 188nm
6000rpm: 170hp 197nm
6500rpm: 190hp 205nm
7000rpm: 227hp 226nm
7500rpm: 251hp 235nm
8000rpm: 269hp 236nm
47mm primaries 5500rpm:165hp 210nm
6000rpm:184hp 215nm
6500rpm:208hp 225nm
7000rpm:235hp 236nm
7500rpm:254hp 239nm
8000rpm:269hp 236nm

I think the 47mm primaries was to small dia for this engine, should have tried 50mm, but they aren't finished yet. Look forward to dyno me and my friend Mikaels drag PP engine with 48mm inlet smallest idia in the rotor housing (this one was only 42mm) and a modified Weber 55dco bored to 56.5mm and some bigger exhaust port. Should be done in a month. I keep you posted!

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Nothing better than a woman with a peripheral ported motor

Very impressive numbers, btw.

KiyoKix

Damn good numbers there, I personally would stick with the 47mm primaries to keep the better overall powerband vs the higher peak number. But that's just me . Either way GREAT numbers you have there!

Here is what I'd like to see though...what are the numbers from down low...say 2500rpm-5k? I'm quite interested to see what the dyno looks like over the whole board instead of just on top where everyone knows it'll sparkle .

12abridgeport

I'm not sure you can even punch the PP at 2500-5000k...it would just bog down.

Lasse wankel

This PP definetively don't bog! It takes full load from 2000 rpm (160nM torque) and idles at 1200 rpm. Mainly of a hi flowing dysa in the rotorhousing and some tuníng. Here's some more numbers.

4500rpm: 136hp 211nM
5000rpm: 145hp 208nM
5500rpm: 165hp 210nm
These numbers were with 47mm primaries. It should be interesting to see if our drag PP motor will bog or take load from 3000 rpm with a 48mm dysa, will have to wait and see in a few weeks. This PP motor is built to compete in rallycross in Norway for a customer and the car is a VW-beetle! So it is built for midrange torque with a broad powerband. Is there anyone here on the forum who has some hardcore numbers from a 13B PP on an engine dyno? please let me know.

12abridgeport

I just almost creamed my pants...13b PP in a bug! That thing must weight about 1600 lbs. That's got to be at least a low 11s N/A right there.
I can't believe you've got so much hp at such low rpms. It's got to have a pretty small duration for a PP to make that much midrange power.
Can't wait to finish re-porting my motor and put it on the dyno. My ports are probably going to flow twice as much than they used to and i increased the duration dramatically also.

EScalade

I used to have my 13B J-port in a so-cal style bug on 17 inch rims etc... was too lethal I got rid of it.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

For an N/A application, don't you make more power with LOWER octane fuel?

Mazda ran with like 85 Octane fuel at Lemans and all their old SCCA events to get maximum power.

Lasse wankel

The lowest octane rating here in Sweden is 95, maybe i shall compare it to 98 octane. Anyone knows if VP or such companys sell a racing low octane fuel must be some gain compared to pump gas?

Lasse wankel

The duration is exactly as the factory ones. The only difference on the inlet side is that a smaller venturi is made (42mm) compared to factory which has a bigger throat more even hole. The smaller ones flows best when the rotor don't fully open the inlet compare it to a piston engine with a small port and low lift. Also the factory housings is intended for road racing where high rews and output is of main concern.

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

I have a chassis dyno sheet of my old peripheral engine. But i would consider it bad data, as their rpm pickup was different than mine. Alot different. When on the dyno, my auto meter tach, and SDS efi system said I was stopping the run at anywhere from 10k-11krpms, and theres said....well, I'll just post it. This just wans'nt a problem with my car, but everyones in my entire car club. Everyones dyno sheet read the same way.

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

This motor was built by Rob@Pineapple Racing. It had a SDS electronic fuel injection, a 50mm tb (one for each rotor.) a jay tech intake manifold, custom dual 2" exaust
(uncollected). 86-88 rotors, E-shaft, and flywheel, 4 puck solid hub clutch, and a dual diaphram pressure plate. The rotor housings where custom ones, built to the factory specs, then ported to a "D" sytle port. CJ

Rotortuner

Its important to note the difference between pp13bnos's
engine outpute and Lasse wankel's. Wankel has been talking about flywheel HP where pp13bnos is at the wheels, so you can see that by using a larger port and bringing a little more higher end hp pp13bnos got almost another 35 hp or so, they say 30% for drivtrain. But any ways its still evident that with going to bigger ports there is defenetely a lot more power in the top end, Its will be interesting to see lesse wankels drage engine, it sounds though like those ports arent that large either?

CJG

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

I also forgot to mention when it was on the dyno, according to the sds system, I was seeing upto a 130% injector duty cycle!! This was at 45psi fuel pressure. I need way more injector than the 2, 82lb an hour injectors I was running. That was one injector for each rotor.

Rob was saying if it was a race motor, he would have made the engine a square style peripheral port. But I did'nt realy feel I wanted to step into buying a close ratio gear box to make up for narrowing the power band even more. CJ

KiyoKix

SDS...as in EFI (http://www.sdsefi.com)??? Do you still have the engine management system. If so, how do you (or DID you) like it. I'm thinking about picking one up when I go stand alone since I don't have and don't really want to buy a laptop. Plus it's got a good price (not super important, but doesn't hurt) and it's enough to do what I want to do anyway (street car that would see some track time, but mainly street car in need of getting rid of the race restrictor air horn...aka AFM). I'm quite curious to see what you have to say about this system...

pp13bnos

iTrader: (1)

Thats the place. I do not have the unit anymore. I was fabbing up a custom air box for it, and did'nt tighten a lock washer/bolt down all the way. Driving home from work I got on it. At around 9k in 3rd gear the motor lost all power. Seems that I sucked them bolth through the motor. I had to sell the EFI system to finace the rebuild.

The unit itself is realy a easy unit to install/tune. I had never done anything like this, and I found it realy easy to do. If you where in a hurry (and knew what your where doing.), you could wire up the entire car in less than 2hrs I bet. I loved the driveability of the unit. I also would'nt hesitate to get anouther one. As long as I was'nt in need of ignition control. Thats the only thing the SDS unit does'nt control- Ignition. Otherwise its realy a pretty nice little unit.

CJ

PS: It also does'nt have datalogging.

KiyoKix

True, I did notice that it doesn't have data logging. I didn't pay attention and see that you don't have the unit that has ignition control. I would like one that controls ignition too though...hmmm I wonder if they do have one, otherwise I guess Microtech here I come! Damn laptops...