frode

Here is a couple of links to video files of rotary powered rallycross in Norway...

http://www.wrc.no/filer/stein_3omg_rug.wmv
http://wrc.no/filer/Stein_1_omg_lyngas.wmv
http://www.wrc.no/filer/atle_inboard_konsmo.wmv
http://www.wrc.no/filer/atle_test_wankel.wmv

And then a little hill climbing...

http://www.wrc.no/filer/konsmo_Stein.wmv

Specs on the red 1st gen is

13B Peripheral Port
Volvo M45 gearbox with dogshift
Volvo 1031 rearend with sellholm diff lock
Homemade widebody kit (planning to get one for my SA )

j200pruf

iTrader: (4)

The reason that the Octance numbers look way higher is because in Europe they use a different formula to get the octane rating. Look at Some BMW or Mercedes and in the gas door they will have the two number (european and US) and there formulas.

Wargasm

frode, cool videos!

Brian

Lasse wankel

Update on our 13B PP drag motor. In next week we plan to start and idling the motor for about 1 hour (no load) so it stops smoking blue! This is with the Weber 56.5mm carb and on gasoline. Then we switchto the Ron's Racing Methanol set up with a straight tapered inlet manifold with slide butterflies (just as Mazda has done with their Bosch mechanical injection). ´Hopefully the engine starts and idles decently with the alcohol set up, then we heading for the dyno room!

frode

here is another Bug with 13b. Turbo this time...

http://www.estuning.no/filmer/Rotary%20Spinn%20out.avi (30MB)

diyman25

BASE 1987 rX7 turbo housing . 91 NA rotors. weber 48mm IDA. 240 main jets. 120 air jets. F11 emulsion tubes. 75 idle jets. ign timing 20 deg max. spark plugs NGK R 10.5. exauest RB header and collect to street turbo exauest(single 3 inch pipe). ign system stock with MSD COIL.
MY power come like this
from 4000

4000 121 TQ. and 92 WHP

5000 123TQ and 117.06

6000 118.84 and 135.76

6750 128.26 and 165.06

7250 129.69PK and 179.14

7500 129.69 and 183.18PK AFR 12.3

8000 115.54 and 175.54

8250 110.58 and 173.42

is this seen normal? PP should had hight power band than that righ? I think one thing I will do is to make a true PP exauest.( but cant find any info about this?) and with better ign system help to make more HP?
thanks in advance

12abridgeport

I think you defenetly need some msd boxes..i just ordered some should get them today. But still 7500k is way too early for a PP to peak out...something must be out of tuning. The picture looks pretty nice.

j200pruf

iTrader: (4)

What if the port timing on the Port was kinda screwed up, couldn't that make the power lower than one expected?

diyman25

so u mean there is not way to tune it better? is this the engine builder's fault? or it happend on PP all the time

Lasse wankel

I think your inlet is way to big for any hi flow and welocity. Measure your minimum inner dia in the rotor housing, mine is 42-44mm and D-shaped with the opening of the intake port around 10-15 mm sooner (upwards). With yours big holes i think it should have peaked at 11-12000 rpm with a 58mm Weber or fuel injection.

Rotortuner

I think hes running on the big side with the diameter, but i think it should work fine, I bet it one of a couple things,
Make sure the header matches up right, are the sleeves pulled?
Suonds like from the numbers your intake manifold may be too long, whats the leangth?
Get the BEST ignition you can afford.


CJG

Lasse wankel

We have now started the PP w/ alcohol set up. First we made one big fault, we thought that the oil injection axle on the front cover turned anti clockwise just as a distributor but not! Had to modify the fuel pump inside 180 degree of the rotors and switch in and outlet of pump. With just a little squirt of methanol in the intake the engine started instantly! As the water temp rised we lean out the fuel with the shut off valve and the rpm climbed from 1500rpm to 2500rpm. I also noticed that the water temp rises much slover and was never over 85 degree C and w/ the fan just 70 degree C. The engine sounds just as crisp as w/ the weber carb. The slide plate must also be modified becausse the vacuum in the engine made it hard to open slide. We shall use some teflon inserts for the slide for less friction. Last, i don't think we are in the dyno room until middle of September but then we hope for some big numbers

DiaperBoy

Can you turbo a PP

DiaperBoy

ooops and how long would it last?

diyman25

here is the pic of my intake. I took the rubber mount sit between the intake and carb.






I think I will had a better exauest system. and better ign system. for the PP is better to run uncollect pipe all the way to back? or it should collect at some place?

Heath

iTrader: (11)

Looks great! Please keep those pics coming

Rotortuner

Ya, i think your intake is way too long, thats why its peaking in hp so soon. Shorten it to about 6-7 inches from rotor housing face to butterfly. It will make a huge difference.

CJG

Kenku

Hey wait a sec. I just realized; 55 DCO? Any reason to the DCO over the IDA, or is it just that there's a 55mm DCO off the shelf?

Rotortuner

There is a 58 IDA off the shelf. Call Berg up and order one. if you pay cash they are $895, thats what im doing.

CJG

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Since no one ever responded to him... Collect that exhaust as far back as you can. If you leave it uncollected it will not make as much power as it could. The peripheral port has such high overlap that it needs a good scavenging exhaust. Uncollected exhausts do not scavenge. Anyone who disagrees with this statement should go look up the definition of scavenging and then actually try different exhausts for themselves (I have!) instead of going by hearsay. Uncollected merely tune based on organ pipe resonance. I don't care who's P-Port engine from what shop has an uncollected exhaust, he is losing usable power. For an uncollected exhaust to tune for a nice high rpm would require something under 12" or so in length and even then there would be an extremely narrow powerband. Collect them and get it all!

Kenku

'twas my intent, but was just wondering if the cheaper, more readily available 55mm DCO would work as well. I mean, either way I'm going to have to save up for a while, but...

Yes, sometimes it sucks to be a student.

Kenku

rotarygod, what's "as far back as you can"? On the scale of the Racing Beat long primary system, collecting back by the muffler, or...?

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Actually I should have specified better. You can go too far which would reduce your top end power. The idea is to get the most average power through the usable powerband. For a peripheral port engine something collected around 80" total length is fine. Obviously this isn't the back of the car but closer to the middle. The less extreme the porting the farther back the collector should be. This is why the uncollected work so well on low overlap stock ported engines. They are collected at the atmosphere behind the car. A streetport will want a collector near the front of the muffler, a bridgeport somewhere around the rear axle, and a peripheral port in front of the rear axle towards the middle of the car. You see how it works and that was a very general description. Just shoot for the 80" range plus or minus a couple of inches. To get the most out of it make flanges that allow you to move the collector around on a dyno until you find the magic spot. The power should peak about 500-700 rpm below where you want to shift. Then go back and change the ramstacks on the intake side to also correspond. Minor carb retuning will be required to get it all right.

Back to the exhaust topic. I have tried many different exhaust combos on both of my RX's to see what does and doesn't work. A couple of my closest friends also hae RX-7's in various states of porting so I personally know how different exhausts respond to different engines. Many people on here claim they want dyno proof to show that it does or does not work this way. Most of these people have never even tried a different type of system let alone built their own so they don't truly know. If you believe me, great. If you don't, you'll figure it out another way.

FWIW: A friend of mine named Scott Wolffe from Texas City has an all tube framed rotary powered VW. It is strictly a drag race car. This car weighs practically nothing. He has an enormous bridgeport engine based on 6 port housings, 9.7:1 rotors, no exhaust sleeves, Holley carb, and some other goodies. He is one of the back woods type of redneck people who likes to do everything by the seat of his pants. His friends are all American muscle rednecks so they make fun of his little rotary alot. He originally tried the uncollected exhaust on his car. His best time ever with that setup was an 11.7. I forget the mph. Remember this car weighs nothing so it doesn't take an enormous amount of power to go really fast in a straight line. He then collected the exhaust at the advice from a friend. A nonrotary redneck believe it or not! It required a little carb retuning since the engine ran so much better due to good exhaust scavenging. The collected setup got him to a 10.9. That is alot faster! He revs his engines up to 12000 rpm. He has several engines lying around and breaks them quite often but he can afford it and doesn't seem to care. The power issue was very evident. You can listen to others that say that they know someone that has a dual exhaust on a p-port that is fast. 11.7 was pretty fast. If they knew someone with the proper collected exhaust on a p-port then they would know someone faster.

Kenku

Hey, not impunging your credentials at all. I've lurked around and absorbed information on this stuff for as long as I can, and now that I'm getting close enough to getting crap done where I need numbers I was just wondering about some specifics for a starting point from someone who *has* messed around with this stuff. The most fiddling around with the exhaust I've actually *done* is swapping between a RB short primary header and a different short primary header we had around that has a 3" outlet... well, that and various different mufflers to try to get the car under noise restrictions at the local track.

Lasse wankel

One reason why we choose the 55mm carb was that we like a straight 7' tapered inlet manifold. We have plenty of space for that combo in our RX-4 since there is no inner fender walls. Also the price in Sweden is quite low comparing to a 51mm IDA. We have booked dyno time for our PP in the last weekend in September.