Bridge port is over rated?
03-11-07, 12:52 PM
#76
BDC Motorsports
Originally Posted by 680RWHP12A
DONE 
1 vote for bp if its tuned properly and the turbo has gotta be sized right!!
1 vote for bp if its tuned properly
and the turbo has gotta be sized right!!Speaking of turbos, when I do find some irons and rebuild the motor soon, I am removing the 60-1 HIFI and putting on a Master Power T70 w/ a 1.32 A/R P-Trim hotside.
B
03-11-07, 02:36 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
Actually if you look at his compressor map you can see that at 24 psi, that turbo is WAY out of it's efficiency range. A properly sized turbo at 24 psi would have made tons more power than that. Don't judge power by how much boost is run. That's a big mistake that many people make. Boost pressure is irrelevant without knowing efficiency and total airflow at that efficiency. That's why questions like "how much boost can I run" should never be answered without far more information. They can't be.
60-1 turbos have made more hp then him at less boost on 13B's in the past.
He should have hit 439rwh at a much lower boost, therefore something in his complete setup or tune is holding him back. He could slap on his Power Master T70 and he will encounter same issue to a degree.
Look at his 14psi dyno, 378rwh and 273rwt ! Anyone impressed with those numbers ??
http://bdc.cyberosity.com/v/Tuning/D...geViewsIndex=1
03-11-07, 03:02 PM
#79
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally Posted by kabooski
you do know he is using a STOCK Turbo II intercooler right?
Its a Hi-Fi a TOB with a 60-1 wheel Not a 60-1 with a TO4S 4" inlet cover
Its a Hi-Fi a TOB with a 60-1 wheel Not a 60-1 with a TO4S 4" inlet cover
stock intercooler = air restrictor// air heater, LOL
#'s seem ok to me for the conditions
03-11-07, 04:12 PM
#80
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Originally Posted by enzo250
No Way Man. All the fast guys run street ports man..
Originally Posted by enzo250
Here's an easier way to understand it for those that don't get it..
PP > Semi-pp > BP > Street port
PP > Semi-pp > BP > Street port
With turbos things change quite bit.
Any reason why the PR cars are NOT running full PP motors instead of their semi-pp ?
Let's not forget they have tried full PP or BPs in the past but settled on the semi-pp combo.
I give the PR guys lots of respect for their efforts in raising the bar with the little 13B. They have a proven combination which was obvious all 2006. Started with few cars and now many sport that combo since they're all flying.
Those incar vids of Pica are simply awesome !
Like Crispeed mentioned....it's a combination of parts, good engine builder and tuner that keeps it together at those levels.
They just didn't drill holes in their rotor housings and went out for some "butt-dyno" testing !
Seriously, how many here are building a 800rwh+ methanol motor which never sees below 6krpm on a full power run and has to be refreshed every weekend ?
Thread should concentrate on street/track cars and not "full blown pro-race cars"
They run on a rpm range which most street cars will never see which allows them to get away with the drawbacks of overlap and nice amounts of boost levels.
With so many daily driven street cars hitting 600+rwh on street ports maybe people think with a half-bridge port they will theoretically make more, but I don't see or hear of any.
As far as reliability, the halfbridge port is same as street port as long as the port does not extend to the coolant seal.
03-11-07, 04:28 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by kabooski
you do know he is using a STOCK Turbo II intercooler right?
Its a Hi-Fi a TOB with a 60-1 wheel Not a 60-1 with a TO4S 4" inlet cover
Its a Hi-Fi a TOB with a 60-1 wheel Not a 60-1 with a TO4S 4" inlet cover
You do know he was running Methanol injection which is almost like running race gas.
60-1 'hi-fi" should deliver at leats 90% of std 60-1.
Not my fault he's choosing bad examples to promote his BP believes...
03-11-07, 07:59 PM
#82
Originally Posted by Boostn7
Any reason why the PR cars are NOT running full PP motors instead of their semi-pp ?
Also out of curiosity what is the fastest rotary in PR using again?
Originally Posted by Boostn7
Seriously, how many here are building a 800rwh+ methanol motor which never sees below 6krpm on a full power run and has to be refreshed every weekend ?
And when built right they aren't refreshed every weekend.
Originally Posted by Boostn7
Thread should concentrate on street/track cars and not "full blown pro-race cars"
They run on a rpm range which most street cars will never see which allows them to get away with the drawbacks of overlap and nice amounts of boost levels.
They run on a rpm range which most street cars will never see which allows them to get away with the drawbacks of overlap and nice amounts of boost levels.
Listen I stated it earlier. You build an engine for whatever suits your application properly. There's going to be pro's and con's for every combo. You pick the one that suits your needs the best.
What pisses me off with this topic both now and a couple of years ago is the guys who post that streetport is all you need because the fastest guys use them. Yet the people who are posting haven't got a clue what you need...
03-11-07, 08:34 PM
#83
What the hell, i need practice typing.
This thread is titled "bridge port overrated?" To answer that question NO. When the "setup" is correct IE turbo, header, induction system, ect... it does what it it intended to very well. The problem is that you are comparing bridge ports assuming that they are all the same. That would be the same thing as saying "roller cams are overrated". They make all different types of cams for all different types of situations.
Can a good street port "setup" make more power over a broader range than a bad bridge port "setup", hell yeah! Can a good bridge port "setup" make more bottom end power than a bad street port "setup", hell yeah. Trying to discuss the pros and cons of a particular port without discussing it's intended use or supporting mods will never be conclusive.
From what i understand, the more overlap the engine has the more critical the induction/exhaust/turbo matching are. A street port is more forgiving than a bp,spp,pp is when it comes to turbo sizing, intake runner length and diameter, exhaust runner length and diameter. Maybe that is why you see so many street port "setups" that work so well, they are more forgiving than other types of ports.
This is just my opinion I can't show any dyno sheets to prove it, or give comparisons. Just a little common sense and a lot of reading
.
This thread is titled "bridge port overrated?" To answer that question NO. When the "setup" is correct IE turbo, header, induction system, ect... it does what it it intended to very well. The problem is that you are comparing bridge ports assuming that they are all the same. That would be the same thing as saying "roller cams are overrated". They make all different types of cams for all different types of situations.
Can a good street port "setup" make more power over a broader range than a bad bridge port "setup", hell yeah! Can a good bridge port "setup" make more bottom end power than a bad street port "setup", hell yeah. Trying to discuss the pros and cons of a particular port without discussing it's intended use or supporting mods will never be conclusive.
From what i understand, the more overlap the engine has the more critical the induction/exhaust/turbo matching are. A street port is more forgiving than a bp,spp,pp is when it comes to turbo sizing, intake runner length and diameter, exhaust runner length and diameter. Maybe that is why you see so many street port "setups" that work so well, they are more forgiving than other types of ports.
This is just my opinion I can't show any dyno sheets to prove it, or give comparisons. Just a little common sense and a lot of reading
.
03-11-07, 09:03 PM
#85
the fastest 13b PR its the Toyota starlet ANAIS runnig a SEMMI PP=7.27 ET
The old BERTITO(GREY 85 RX7)WAS RUNNING THE SEMMI PP BRIDGEPORT COMBO and it ran 7.4 ET)
almost every really fast 13B down in PR are running SEMMI PP
click on this link http://www.prsportcompact.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=293 and you will see a chart with almost every car down PR
The old BERTITO(GREY 85 RX7)WAS RUNNING THE SEMMI PP BRIDGEPORT COMBO and it ran 7.4 ET)
almost every really fast 13B down in PR are running SEMMI PP
click on this link http://www.prsportcompact.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=293 and you will see a chart with almost every car down PR
03-11-07, 09:24 PM
#89
Originally Posted by Boostn7
Any reason why the PR cars are NOT running full PP motors instead of their semi-pp ?
03-11-07, 09:32 PM
#90
Originally Posted by joeylyrech
the number 1 position its the RX8 ML,Its running a PP 20B build by KIWI RE and tuned by Siguel Racing
Yet the fastest mazda in PR run's one.
This was the point i was trying to get across..
Does this mean the PP is the best since the fastest mazda in PR uses it?
Well based on the way most people think on here it must be...
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but to base your decision's on what other people do is not always the best way to do things.
03-11-07, 09:41 PM
#91
well right now the have this SEMMI PP combination that its giving them the right results(7.2,7.3)but theres a couple running already PP like Clubman racing and hes running really low 7.4,what i heard of a couple of puertorican tuners its that its easier to tune a SEMMI PP in comparacion with the PP,if you look at the PICA RACING CAR hes running a SEMMI PP
with a locked dizzy and a Sakura fuel managment sistem,get my point?simplicity its years of experience working with one type of porting so why change to the other if we already proved that the SEMMI PP works,but dont get me wrong the PP are coming very soon
with a locked dizzy and a Sakura fuel managment sistem,get my point?simplicity its years of experience working with one type of porting so why change to the other if we already proved that the SEMMI PP works,but dont get me wrong the PP are coming very soon
03-11-07, 10:20 PM
#95
Originally Posted by joeylyrech
simplicity its years of experience working with one type of porting so why change to the other if we already proved that the SEMMI PP works,but dont get me wrong the PP are coming very soon
They have Semi down pat right now and everyone is doing it.
It's the textbook combo right now in PR. Although there's a few guys trying some other port styles as well lately..
Im not trying to say one is better then the other as both are good ports.
I'm actually testing both to see which one would better suit me.
I just hate the non open mindedness of some people that still believe the SP is best port for turbo mazda's, since BP/SPP/PP have to much overlap and will never work...
It might be the best choice for most street car's but definitely isn't the best choice if your looking to make the most HP..
03-11-07, 10:32 PM
#96
i use to drive my s5 t2 bridgeported swap every day to work 43 miles(highway and city)and it ran fine it didnt last that long cause my fuelpump died but it have good low end and amazing top end.i cannot complain about how the engine performed,but like some people said depends on the porting,how the cuts were made and most important if you liked or not,right now im building another S5 TII block and im going to HBP i loved