Bridge port is over rated?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 675
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From: Louisville, Ky
Originally Posted by Bob
In reference to anyone making comments about BDC’s building and tuning skills being sub-par, or inferior, based on the numbers he was putting down with his half bridge and a 60-1 HIFI….
First off, what’s wrong with using the equipment that is ALREADY ON THE CAR for testing purposes? I’m sure that BDC had a strong hunch (at least) that the 60-1 HIFI would be a little on the small side for the H~bp.
Also, in regards to the 60-1 HIFI….and it NOT being too small for the H~bp….
Ok, even though I disagree, let’s roll with that for a minute…what about the stock TB elbow with an inlet ID of 43mm? What’s its capability in terms of CFM compared to the turbo, the TB, and the engine?
Overall, BDC’s numbers with a 60-1 HIFI, stock intercooler, and stock TB elbow are pretty impressive.
I think this thread has gotten out of whack in other regards as well….
One of the main areas of discussion was the streetability of the H~bp, was it not?
Why is everyone comparing horsepower numbers for NORMAL driving? All these figures are for full throttle only…and have NOTHING to do with NORMAL street driving.
Street racing? Is that what is in question? If so…then here is what I have to say:
One of the main points of argument here is “What port makes more low end (below 3800-4000rpm)”?
Well, regardless of the answer…Even **IF** a street port turbo engine with any given setup made 25-50 more hp below 4000rpm…the H~bp turbo car with 100+ more horsepower up top, will walk away from the street port turbo car after the first gear shift…period.
This is mainly aimed at REted….Do you really think that your car would stand a chance vs. Tony’s car…in a straight line race or a road race?
Boostmaniac…
During autoXing, what percentage of time do you spend below 4krpm, compared to the amount of time that you spend above 4000rpm? If you want to build a fast autoX car, answering this question will help you determine what type of setup you should utilize.
First off, what’s wrong with using the equipment that is ALREADY ON THE CAR for testing purposes? I’m sure that BDC had a strong hunch (at least) that the 60-1 HIFI would be a little on the small side for the H~bp.
Also, in regards to the 60-1 HIFI….and it NOT being too small for the H~bp….
Ok, even though I disagree, let’s roll with that for a minute…what about the stock TB elbow with an inlet ID of 43mm? What’s its capability in terms of CFM compared to the turbo, the TB, and the engine?
Overall, BDC’s numbers with a 60-1 HIFI, stock intercooler, and stock TB elbow are pretty impressive.
I think this thread has gotten out of whack in other regards as well….
One of the main areas of discussion was the streetability of the H~bp, was it not?
Why is everyone comparing horsepower numbers for NORMAL driving? All these figures are for full throttle only…and have NOTHING to do with NORMAL street driving.
Street racing? Is that what is in question? If so…then here is what I have to say:
One of the main points of argument here is “What port makes more low end (below 3800-4000rpm)”?
Well, regardless of the answer…Even **IF** a street port turbo engine with any given setup made 25-50 more hp below 4000rpm…the H~bp turbo car with 100+ more horsepower up top, will walk away from the street port turbo car after the first gear shift…period.
This is mainly aimed at REted….Do you really think that your car would stand a chance vs. Tony’s car…in a straight line race or a road race?
Boostmaniac…
During autoXing, what percentage of time do you spend below 4krpm, compared to the amount of time that you spend above 4000rpm? If you want to build a fast autoX car, answering this question will help you determine what type of setup you should utilize.
-Maniac
BDC Motorsports
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 6
From: Grand Prairie, TX
Originally Posted by Boostmaniac
That answers my question flawlessly. I am in the same mode of thinking with you as to the importance of the powerband, not just a peak number. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to say I have a 700 whp car, but I'd be just as happier, if not more so, with something that puts down 400 - 500 whp with an effective powerband. As for customer cars running your bridgeport, what turbo setups have you seen that work extremely well and accomplish this feat?
-Maniac
-Maniac
In response to your question, so far I've seen the Master Power T70 with a 1.15 A/R P-Trim work pretty well. I've also seen the T-Series Turbonetics turbos do pretty well as well. Buddy of mine's Turbo II w/ a Ser 4 turbo block w/ a half-bridgeport (that I did) has a T66 w/ a 0.96 A/R P-Trim hotside and it put down something like 385-388rwhp at 12psi of boost. The dyno sheet is up on my gallery to see. I'm anxious to see what it'll do with 10psi more.
B
Ted: I would hate for you to be in front of me when you enter a busy highway keeping it under 4k rpm...your fc would not look pretty. But anywho, I think you are right Ted..you are a wimp. you do not know how to compare at all. YOU CANNOT COMPARE TWO CARS WITH TWO D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T TURBOS. Period. A REAL comparision to see if a BP is infact better is to compare two cars with the same turbo, therefore you can see which port style will spool the turbo quicker. Again it doesn't make sense to compare a T04E vs an S300.
We are not comparing "spool time" between turbo's.
We are not comparing "spool time" between turbo's.
Fast-Trash
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 561
Likes: 4
From: Louisville, Ky
Originally Posted by Slammedblk7
Ted: I would hate for you to be in front of me when you enter a busy highway keeping it under 4k rpm...your fc would not look pretty. But anywho, I think you are right Ted..you are a wimp. you do not know how to compare at all. YOU CANNOT COMPARE TWO CARS WITH TWO D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T TURBOS. Period. A REAL comparision to see if a BP is infact better is to compare two cars with the same turbo, therefore you can see which port style will spool the turbo quicker. Again it doesn't make sense to compare a T04E vs an S300.
We are not comparing "spool time" between turbo's.
We are not comparing "spool time" between turbo's.
Originally Posted by Slammedblk7
Ted: I would hate for you to be in front of me when you enter a busy highway keeping it under 4k rpm...your fc would not look pretty. But anywho, I think you are right Ted..you are a wimp. you do not know how to compare at all. YOU CANNOT COMPARE TWO CARS WITH TWO D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T TURBOS. Period. A REAL comparision to see if a BP is infact better is to compare two cars with the same turbo, therefore you can see which port style will spool the turbo quicker. Again it doesn't make sense to compare a T04E vs an S300.
We are not comparing "spool time" between turbo's.
We are not comparing "spool time" between turbo's.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 675
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From: Louisville, Ky
Originally Posted by ducktape
Chris Ludwig of Ludwig Motorsports has been churning out Street-Port 62-1 cars right and left and putting down some impressive dyno numbers with regularity. Mine is the first turbo Bridge-Port he's put together, and I'll be using a 62-1 as well. In a couple months we should have some "all things being equal" dyno sheets to compare. Will be nice to have some hard data.
Originally Posted by Bob
In reference to anyone making comments about BDC’s building and tuning skills being sub-par, or inferior, based on the numbers he was putting down with his half bridge and a 60-1 HIFI….
First off, what’s wrong with using the equipment that is ALREADY ON THE CAR for testing purposes? I’m sure that BDC had a strong hunch (at least) that the 60-1 HIFI would be a little on the small side for the H~bp.
Also, in regards to the 60-1 HIFI….and it NOT being too small for the H~bp….
Ok, even though I disagree, let’s roll with that for a minute…what about the stock TB elbow with an inlet ID of 47mm? What’s its capability in terms of CFM compared to the turbo, the TB, and the engine?
Overall, BDC’s numbers with a 60-1 HIFI, stock intercooler, and stock TB elbow are pretty impressive.
I think this thread has gotten out of whack in other regards as well….
One of the main areas of discussion was the streetability of the H~bp, was it not?
Why is everyone comparing horsepower numbers for NORMAL driving? All these figures are for full throttle only…and have NOTHING to do with NORMAL street driving.
Street racing? Is that what is in question? If so…then here is what I have to say:
One of the main points of argument here is “What port makes more low end (below 3800-4000rpm)”?
Well, regardless of the answer…Even **IF** a street port turbo engine with any given setup made 25-50 more hp below 4000rpm…the H~bp turbo car with 100+ more horsepower up top, will walk away from the street port turbo car after the first gear shift…period.
This is mainly aimed at REted….Do you really think that your car would stand a chance vs. Tony’s car…in a straight line race or a road race?
Boostmaniac…
During autoXing, what percentage of time do you spend below 4krpm, compared to the amount of time that you spend above 4000rpm? If you want to build a fast autoX car, answering this question will help you determine what type of setup you should utilize.
First off, what’s wrong with using the equipment that is ALREADY ON THE CAR for testing purposes? I’m sure that BDC had a strong hunch (at least) that the 60-1 HIFI would be a little on the small side for the H~bp.
Also, in regards to the 60-1 HIFI….and it NOT being too small for the H~bp….
Ok, even though I disagree, let’s roll with that for a minute…what about the stock TB elbow with an inlet ID of 47mm? What’s its capability in terms of CFM compared to the turbo, the TB, and the engine?
Overall, BDC’s numbers with a 60-1 HIFI, stock intercooler, and stock TB elbow are pretty impressive.
I think this thread has gotten out of whack in other regards as well….
One of the main areas of discussion was the streetability of the H~bp, was it not?
Why is everyone comparing horsepower numbers for NORMAL driving? All these figures are for full throttle only…and have NOTHING to do with NORMAL street driving.
Street racing? Is that what is in question? If so…then here is what I have to say:
One of the main points of argument here is “What port makes more low end (below 3800-4000rpm)”?
Well, regardless of the answer…Even **IF** a street port turbo engine with any given setup made 25-50 more hp below 4000rpm…the H~bp turbo car with 100+ more horsepower up top, will walk away from the street port turbo car after the first gear shift…period.
This is mainly aimed at REted….Do you really think that your car would stand a chance vs. Tony’s car…in a straight line race or a road race?
Boostmaniac…
During autoXing, what percentage of time do you spend below 4krpm, compared to the amount of time that you spend above 4000rpm? If you want to build a fast autoX car, answering this question will help you determine what type of setup you should utilize.
Then again, we're comparing aggressive streetports vs. hbp's why are we only considering under 4k rpm power? I think the power under the curve is more important.
Last edited by Roen; Mar 16, 2007 at 05:44 PM.
Passing cars on the road
Roen:
I see your point, and it is a valid one; however, everyone's driving style is different.
Me...personally...it doesn't matter whether I'm in my miata, my turbo rx7, or my 454 powered GMC suburban...if I want to pass someone, and do it fast...I always downshift.
Only the guys with street driven H~bp rx7's could tell you if they have to downshift to pass someone on the road.
I see your point, and it is a valid one; however, everyone's driving style is different.
Me...personally...it doesn't matter whether I'm in my miata, my turbo rx7, or my 454 powered GMC suburban...if I want to pass someone, and do it fast...I always downshift.
Only the guys with street driven H~bp rx7's could tell you if they have to downshift to pass someone on the road.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,236
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From: Waiting for Indykid to catch up
I can't believe I just read all 16 pages.....
Anyways, I have a HB TO4R that used to be a Large Street port a few years ago, and I can tell you that the power difference was substantial. Below 2Krpms, the power was much worse, but anything above that had better response, and it has a blistering top end. I can build a few lbs of boost in 4rth gear by 2500rpm.
I have not yet run into noticeable reversion even after cranking it up to 26lbs. Can someone go into more detail about reversion and its effects on a HB vs SP?
Anyways, I have a HB TO4R that used to be a Large Street port a few years ago, and I can tell you that the power difference was substantial. Below 2Krpms, the power was much worse, but anything above that had better response, and it has a blistering top end. I can build a few lbs of boost in 4rth gear by 2500rpm.
I have not yet run into noticeable reversion even after cranking it up to 26lbs. Can someone go into more detail about reversion and its effects on a HB vs SP?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,541
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From: Abingdon, Md
UPDATE:
Curious what all the "Bridgeport" guys have to say about this. I just dyno'ed again tonight and made 711rwhp and 566 torque! YES ON A STREET PORT! Don't know many that are making that kind of power on all turbo @ 35psi on C116.
Curious what all the "Bridgeport" guys have to say about this. I just dyno'ed again tonight and made 711rwhp and 566 torque! YES ON A STREET PORT! Don't know many that are making that kind of power on all turbo @ 35psi on C116.
BDC Motorsports
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 6
From: Grand Prairie, TX
Originally Posted by ErnieT
UPDATE:
Curious what all the "Bridgeport" guys have to say about this. I just dyno'ed again tonight and made 711rwhp and 566 torque! YES ON A STREET PORT! Don't know many that are making that kind of power on all turbo @ 35psi on C116.
Curious what all the "Bridgeport" guys have to say about this. I just dyno'ed again tonight and made 711rwhp and 566 torque! YES ON A STREET PORT! Don't know many that are making that kind of power on all turbo @ 35psi on C116.
B
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 675
Likes: 0
From: Louisville, Ky
Originally Posted by ErnieT
UPDATE:
Curious what all the "Bridgeport" guys have to say about this. I just dyno'ed again tonight and made 711rwhp and 566 torque! YES ON A STREET PORT! Don't know many that are making that kind of power on all turbo @ 35psi on C116.
Curious what all the "Bridgeport" guys have to say about this. I just dyno'ed again tonight and made 711rwhp and 566 torque! YES ON A STREET PORT! Don't know many that are making that kind of power on all turbo @ 35psi on C116.
Gratz on the 711!
Originally Posted by ErnieT
UPDATE:
Curious what all the "Bridgeport" guys have to say about this. I just dyno'ed again tonight and made 711rwhp and 566 torque! YES ON A STREET PORT! Don't know many that are making that kind of power on all turbo @ 35psi on C116.
Curious what all the "Bridgeport" guys have to say about this. I just dyno'ed again tonight and made 711rwhp and 566 torque! YES ON A STREET PORT! Don't know many that are making that kind of power on all turbo @ 35psi on C116.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 675
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From: Louisville, Ky
Originally Posted by ErnieT
..
My only 2 questions are pretty simple, I am assuming that the bottom graph is boost and I noticed on the big run it looks like boost is kinda all over the place? Is that a problem with the graph or was your boost really fluctuating?
And second, I noticed a violent drop in power towards the very end of the run. Was that just you lifting the throttle?
Otherwise, great numbers man, I hope you got it on video.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,541
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From: Abingdon, Md
Boost spiked to 35psi then dropped to 30psi. Im only working on a 3 bar map sensor. My Tec3 unit reset itself and dumped an *** load of fuel in at the end. We're working with electromotive on it. I was told they went with single post coils which corrected this.
Passing life by
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Scotland, USA
This internet **** cracks me up.
End of story
Originally Posted by crispeed
The leaders
Falito.......OSO
Edwin......Siguel
Gaby
Maiky
And the list goes on and on.
You guys are just followers!
Falito.......OSO
Edwin......Siguel
Gaby
Maiky
And the list goes on and on.
You guys are just followers!
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From: n
Originally Posted by rotarygod
Aren't you guilty of this yourself? I seem to recall someone calling Brian an idiot a few pages into the thread. Here it is:
-Ted
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From: n
Originally Posted by Bob
One of the main areas of discussion was the streetability of the H~bp, was it not?
Why is everyone comparing horsepower numbers for NORMAL driving? All these figures are for full throttle only…and have NOTHING to do with NORMAL street driving.
Why is everyone comparing horsepower numbers for NORMAL driving? All these figures are for full throttle only…and have NOTHING to do with NORMAL street driving.
One person's definition of "streetable" is not the same as the other person.
My argument that a BP isn't streetable will cause an uproar in here...
I think it's safe to say that, right?
Dyno graphs are indisputable, objective proof.
One of the main points of argument here is “What port makes more low end (below 3800-4000rpm)”?
Well, regardless of the answer…Even **IF** a street port turbo engine with any given setup made 25-50 more hp below 4000rpm…the H~bp turbo car with 100+ more horsepower up top, will walk away from the street port turbo car after the first gear shift…period.
This is mainly aimed at REted….Do you really think that your car would stand a chance vs. Tony’s car…in a straight line race or a road race?
Well, regardless of the answer…Even **IF** a street port turbo engine with any given setup made 25-50 more hp below 4000rpm…the H~bp turbo car with 100+ more horsepower up top, will walk away from the street port turbo car after the first gear shift…period.
This is mainly aimed at REted….Do you really think that your car would stand a chance vs. Tony’s car…in a straight line race or a road race?
Did that get deleted by the system barf?
There was never an argument that a BP makes power.
So you arguing the above has no bearing on what I'm trying to say.
I'm arguing STREETABILITY of the BP.
I factor in FUEL EFFICIENCY into all of this - BDC has already claimed 300 miles on an S4 gas tank, while I did 400 on mines - 33% BETTER GAS MILEAGE.
This was never about all-out power while ignoring gas mileage.
If you can't read the previous replies and keep all of it in mind, I'd suggest not sticking your nose in the thread in the first place, cause repeating myself is getting tiring.
-Ted
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From: n
Originally Posted by Boostmaniac
But I did have a question on the 3rd dyno where I believe you were comparing your car to the 499 whp bridgeport. It seems that the BP starts making more power ~ 3200 rpm with a pretty damn big turbo. I think the question this raises (I am assuming you are running a streetport) is if you put the same turbo on your car, would it be able to exceed this midrange power the bridgeport seems to be making from ~3200 RPM up.
I know at one time, there was a lot of hush-hush on all these different turbo combinations, so I can't comment one way or another.
Personally, I'm much more familiar with the Garrett stuff myself.
-Ted
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From: n
Originally Posted by Slammedblk7
Ted: I would hate for you to be in front of me when you enter a busy highway keeping it under 4k rpm...your fc would not look pretty.
In fact, I do this daily without any problem.
My biggest problem is trying not to plow into the guy in front of me that I'm behind coming on the on-ramp.
The car can easily get "reckless" tickets just purely on acceleration, and that gets you AUTOMATIC JAIL TIME in Hawaii.
I dunno about you, but I have no desire to end up in jail.
[QUOTE}But anywho, I think you are right Ted..you are a wimp. you do not know how to compare at all.[/QUOTE]
Okay, last reply to you, since you like to just insult me.
I don't see you contributing anything helpful in the past, and you're poor attitude toward me gets you on ignore.
Sure, your car may be faster than mind, but my car has more than enough power to get through normal traffic down here.
Brag all you want - I have no use for the power you're making (where's YOUR dyno sheet?) 99% of the time driving to and from work.
YOU CANNOT COMPARE TWO CARS WITH TWO D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T TURBOS. Period. A REAL comparision to see if a BP is infact better is to compare two cars with the same turbo, therefore you can see which port style will spool the turbo quicker. Again it doesn't make sense to compare a T04E vs an S300.
I think it's been established that turbo sizing to the PORT TYPE is important.
All you bitches are whining about are comparision of SP versus BP WITH THE SAME GODAMN TURBO - who the **** is contradicting themselves now?
We are not comparing "spool time" between turbo's.
It's some of the BP bitches that are bragging about how fast their turbo spools - funny huh?
I'm looking at POWER production - not boost - thus all the dyno graphs.
-Ted
Well Ted, Turbo sizing is important when you are trying to figure the amount of power one is wanting to make. Running a BP would allow you to run a larger turbo without having the "lag" as a SP would on the same turbo, if you went even larger. I'm not bragging on what power Im making. Im talking about the effectiveness of the port. So, how do you compare two cars with two turbos that have major differences? Yes, put a LARGE turbo on any car and it will show how big it is, but which port will get that identical turbo to "spool" quicker is the key.
BDC Motorsports
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,667
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From: Grand Prairie, TX
Originally Posted by xboxthug13b
i get 180 miles on a stock port with not much boosting, something mjust be wrong lol.
B
OK Ted...
I'll ignore the fluff in your response and stick to the subject at hand.
You are correct, different people have different ideas about what is deemed as streetable.
So tell me, in your opinion...What are the factors/parameters that you examine when determining whether an engine/car is streetable or not? Please list them.
-Bob
I'll ignore the fluff in your response and stick to the subject at hand.
You are correct, different people have different ideas about what is deemed as streetable.
So tell me, in your opinion...What are the factors/parameters that you examine when determining whether an engine/car is streetable or not? Please list them.
-Bob