Yes i am, the ones that require having the motor machined.. Too much material is removed from the irons and causes them to become weak. Ever notice all the pictures of studded motors that have cracked plates always crack trough the center of the oversized holes. The front and rear irons do not have enough meat to support those kinds of pressures. If there were never any problems with the motor then you wouldn't notice but if it ever detonates or backfires thats all she wrote. I added three dowels on my newest motor so i will see how that works.

 

What is the OD on the dowells and how deep did you go into the plates.

These are the two important factors to me.

 

Factory dowels and less than 1/2".

 

ahh ok i can see problems with those over sized studs..but i was thinking you were talking about studs that replace the factory tension bolts (same size as stock) no machining.

in my last post i wrote "better then stock dowels" what i meant was better then stock tension bolts, i dont know why i wrote dowels lol goodfella caught that one...

 

I would you use the stock tension bolts over any stud thanks.

 

Hmmmm... sounds like this topic needs it's own thread.

 

what clearance with factory dowels?

 

Maybe .002".

 

So what's the verdict $260 RA super seals or $450 ALS seals?

 

S5 streetport NA 6pt
100 before
90 after break in

5 used RA classic apex seals (1 new, lost the corner piece to one )
all used side seal and corner seals

a mix of used RA and OEM springs

1.5 years of service, mix of daily and rally. see's high RPM often.

it is an engine built entirely of other bad engines, just through in RA wet seal kit.

 

Sorry to bump an old thread but I'm about to pull the plug on some apex seals and was wondering how your engines are holding up with the als seals compression wise? I've heard from a couple reputable builders that their customers with ALS seals were starting to flood back with low compression problems and was wondering if this was the common consensus.

 

Power seals !!!

Lots of racers from the island are changing to these seals with great results!!!

A friend of mine who builds engines with ALS jas had problem lately with starting engines because the seals are not sealing well.

 

I've got 45k on the regular Ra seals in my NA 91 vert. I rebuilt the engine back in 2005 and put that mileage on it over 4 years. I drove through some high water which flooded the engine out and left me stranded. Came back later that day, fired her up and drove it back home. Just before the flood event, I bought a Bmw M5 so I never drove the rx7 again. It sat up for 5 years. Just a couple months ago, I decided to get her running again and had to install a new fuel pump. Cranked her over and as soon as the fresh fuel hit, she fired right up and purred like a kitten. I've been planing on pulling the engine apart to inspect the housings but don't have the time.

Edit: My omp never worked so it was premixed that whole time. Also keep in mind that I reused the same housings when the engine blew back in 2005. So obviously compression is not a factor in my experience.

 

Sounds like your friend had similar experiences as others that I've heard with ALS seals. Do you remember how many miles those engines went before the hard starting occurred?

Anyone else have any longevity experience with the ALS seals?

 

Unfortunately one of my friends who rebuilt his engine with ALS seals is having the same problem.

I would go with the super seals. I think my car has super seals in it (I didn't do the rebuild, lucky 7 did). Mine has no problems starting, hot or cold, or running anywhere.

 

So are people just keeping hush hush about the compression problems? I feel like ALS/E&J seals have been out long enough for people to be reporting back any issues but most of the threads I've found are several years old.

 

Weird, i've always heard nothing but great stuff about ALS. I rebuilt my engine last year with ALS, so far so good.

 

^^^Same.

Well they're pretty much unbreakable so for high hp applications no doubt they're working fine. I just think they've been out long enough for people to notice how they're doing longevity wise but it's been challenging to find consistant info.

 

You guys should be thinking of using the E&J autoworks apex seals. I just assembled an engine and the compression is very high. My engine has not been started yet but after turning the crank a few times I know that I am going to have very good compression.

 

ALS is the old name of the E&J autoworks apex seals.

 

Yeah actually e&j Autoworks is the original maker of the als apex seals, but e&j Autoworks stopped supplying als with there apex seals.

 

We tore his engine apart and we found chatter marks on the housings and damage to the seals.

His exhaust ports are rather aggressive. they are square in shape and the sides of the housings that the apex seals slide over isn't a whole ton of material. It looks like the apex seal would catch the lip of the port and over time damage the seal. So what was left was a seal that eventually got worn in the middle of the seal and the small ends of the seals which maintained contact with the housing the whole time staid in good condition. so he lost compression because 80% of the seal was worn badly, and the other 20% lifted the worn part of the seal up when it rode over the housing.

He is going with stock ports this time, and using the E&J seals again (new ones). He got 20K miles from his old seals, we are expecting much better results with stock ports.


Another friend who builds engines recommends the stock seals and for good reason. If you think about the R&D that goes behind those seals and the process controls with the potential of all the lawsuits/recalls. You know damn well that you are getting a good seal from Mazda OEM. I am sure not even 1/1000 of the time or know how went into building most of these other seals, and they sure don't have nearly the same control that OEM do on their processes and quality.

Very good debates going on. He rebuilt his with OEM 2 piece seals and the car runs like its new. I tuned his engine and he had single digit knock values from vacuum to full boost (16PSI at 6,000 ft above sea level) at 100% injector duty cycle on the stock twins (we pushed them). Obviously we backed it off to 13PSI, but we wanted to see what she could do.

I think the preperation of the housings, being conservative on the ports, and making sure the ports are done right, or leave them stock is important. I think using stock springs is a good idea. I don't have any conclusive evidence that one seal is better than the other. It does make me question why Mazda went with a seal that was harder than softer, it must wear better and last longer than the other seals. The question then becomes, what happens when they fail? will it eat housings and a turbo or not?

 

I changed my mind last minute and went ALS/E&J. I think just the added safety knowing that the seal won't break and wreck the engine is reassuring. Losing compression overtime gives you plenty of time to prepare financially for a rebuild...source housings, parts, etc. Losing a stock seal randomly and it eating up the motor seems like the higher risk IMO.

 

Kinda sounds like high EGTs. You have any numbers? How much premix?

 

I have been using the aussie made PTS seals with great results , they are sold in 2mm & 3mm and are durable and gentle on housings , In 7 years of using them have not had a failure or problem with them with turbo motors and Bridge ported motors running up to 10,000 rpm .And no one has been able to brake them yet in over 10 years on market