ALS apex seals or RA super seals (2mm)
07-31-09, 02:00 PM
#51
InsaneRotaries.com
ALS all the way... I've personally seen them go where no factory seal have dare to go and they survived. I just sold my last set of ALS Apex & Side seals
ps. Most of those other seals are re-branded seals that's made by the same person.. Not ALS
ps. Most of those other seals are re-branded seals that's made by the same person.. Not ALS
07-31-09, 02:25 PM
#53
4th string e-armchair QB
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why are you dead set on going 3mm if the ALS 2mm can carry you there, especially when you say your motor won't detonate?
P.S. I've had my ALS seals up to almost 1400 F post-turbo without an issue. That was a whoops.
P.S. I've had my ALS seals up to almost 1400 F post-turbo without an issue. That was a whoops.
07-31-09, 02:52 PM
#55
^^rotard for life^^
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ok now ive never run the als seals, but i have been using the RA super seals for some time now. now im making just shy of 500hp and road race the car (so long extended heat cyles) and have had great luck!! my engine has been together for a 1.5 seasons thus far and had great comp and have no reason to tear down as of yet.... just my experience
07-31-09, 03:02 PM
#56
The king of the highway!
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most of the reasons why i see people going 3mm is because of the strength. but with the als seals they start up quicker and seal alot stronger than most. Im stating from experience.
07-31-09, 09:00 PM
#57
mmm doritos
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Bingo...for everyone else who must have over read it, i already stated twice in this thread that my rotors are fairly new and they were already milled to accept 3mm on the last motor they were used in, so its either buy new rotors or get 3mm seals hmmm...
07-31-09, 09:57 PM
#58
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lets keep this thread going, i am currently shopping for 3mm seals for a motor im putting together.. its a S4 motor that will be pushing 600whp and up, around 25-30 psi. I was told to use RA super seals or seals from rx7 specialties in canada and also was recommended the ALS seals. It seems as though everyone has mixed opinions on which are the best..However i have not heard much about the rx7 specialties seals, can anyone who has actually used them give some feedback?
EDIT: just check the ALS site and all they list are 2mm seals?? do they make 3mm?
EDIT: just check the ALS site and all they list are 2mm seals?? do they make 3mm?
07-31-09, 10:34 PM
#59
mmm doritos
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well damn i guess i didn't actually state in this thread that they were already milled, it was a different thread...but its pretty obvious by the 2nd post of mine you have listed there, "yeah no 3mm ALS so thats out of the question for me" wouldn't one assume by that statement that my rotors are already milled and i dont have the option of 2mm?? oh well it dosent really matter..
back on topic, any other good 3mm seals out there guys? so far all i know of are the OEM gsl-se 3mm or RA 3mm. but ill only consider the RA seals if someone can confirm that they have changed them from the original ones, the original ones were terrible.. what about atkins cryo treated 3mm seals? any input on those? i never hear anything at all about those good or bad.
back on topic, any other good 3mm seals out there guys? so far all i know of are the OEM gsl-se 3mm or RA 3mm. but ill only consider the RA seals if someone can confirm that they have changed them from the original ones, the original ones were terrible.. what about atkins cryo treated 3mm seals? any input on those? i never hear anything at all about those good or bad.
07-31-09, 10:46 PM
#60
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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well damn i guess i didn't actually state in this thread that they were already milled, it was a different thread...but its pretty obvious by the 2nd post of mine you have listed there, "yeah no 3mm ALS so thats out of the question for me" wouldn't one assume by that statement that my rotors are already milled and i dont have the option of 2mm?? oh well it dosent really matter..
back on topic, any other good 3mm seals out there guys? so far all i know of are the OEM gsl-se 3mm or RA 3mm. but ill only consider the RA seals if someone can confirm that they have changed them from the original ones, the original ones were terrible.. what about atkins cryo treated 3mm seals? any input on those? i never hear anything at all about those good or bad.
back on topic, any other good 3mm seals out there guys? so far all i know of are the OEM gsl-se 3mm or RA 3mm. but ill only consider the RA seals if someone can confirm that they have changed them from the original ones, the original ones were terrible.. what about atkins cryo treated 3mm seals? any input on those? i never hear anything at all about those good or bad.
08-01-09, 12:05 AM
#62
We did back to back testing on one engine.
Tuned it the car on 30psi with pump fuel and water injection and the E&J seals performed Excellent.
Their presentation, their finish. excellent seal.
We did bend 3 apex seals after we had a boost solenoid **** it self and water stopped working
Engine now has 3 ra seals and 3 e&j seals. It makes the same power it did before, starts as well as before and has been going for a long time with no issues.
To me the RA seals are best bang for buck. If you can afford the little bit extra for the E&J seals i would go with them.
As far as we could see, the first engine did around 18-19000km before it did die(from reason stated above) and their was some slight chatter marks, but housing were still in good nick, no chrome peel etc.
Engine tested just recently at 105 and 110psi and this is what it tested just after run in before dyno tune.
People who have engines with 90 psi compression, honestly, get a new builder, dont blame the apex seal.
I have built some engines that should have really low compression with very worn parts and they still comp over 95-100psi.
As far as i have seen most engines that have sub 95psi are either **** or 3mm. or both.
When we build engines for our customers, i give them the choice of apex seal, but still above all tune is more important then anything.
We have had ra 2mm seals in an engine that has made over 1000bhp with no worries and is reliable and at the beginning cracked more plates then anything else.(thats another story).
Tuned it the car on 30psi with pump fuel and water injection and the E&J seals performed Excellent.
Their presentation, their finish. excellent seal.
We did bend 3 apex seals after we had a boost solenoid **** it self and water stopped working
Engine now has 3 ra seals and 3 e&j seals. It makes the same power it did before, starts as well as before and has been going for a long time with no issues.
To me the RA seals are best bang for buck. If you can afford the little bit extra for the E&J seals i would go with them.
As far as we could see, the first engine did around 18-19000km before it did die(from reason stated above) and their was some slight chatter marks, but housing were still in good nick, no chrome peel etc.
Engine tested just recently at 105 and 110psi and this is what it tested just after run in before dyno tune.
People who have engines with 90 psi compression, honestly, get a new builder, dont blame the apex seal.
I have built some engines that should have really low compression with very worn parts and they still comp over 95-100psi.
As far as i have seen most engines that have sub 95psi are either **** or 3mm. or both.
When we build engines for our customers, i give them the choice of apex seal, but still above all tune is more important then anything.
We have had ra 2mm seals in an engine that has made over 1000bhp with no worries and is reliable and at the beginning cracked more plates then anything else.(thats another story).
08-02-09, 02:26 PM
#64
mmm doritos
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yeah i have those rare beefy plates with the thick dowel castings with triangle gusset on the rear dowel area. and motor will be studded so i should be good. Has anyone every broken those thick dowel plates? and as for the E&J seals, where can i find them and do they make 3mm?
08-03-09, 04:03 AM
#65
Your stud kit will be the only reason you crack plates. **** the studs off. They are absolute junk.
As for the cracking plates part.
Engine was studded by Guru(also known as xtreme rotaries) and it would randomly crack plates. Sometimes while on the dyno. Most of the time at the track. Can i just add the plates were no longer cracking from the oil gallery. But the cracks were starting at the wholes were the studs go around the spark plug area.
Eventually binned the whole motor, put 24 dowells in it and it has not cracked a plate since.
The dowells are also very small. Too big a dowell and you end up with the same problem as the stud kit.
As for the cracking plates part.
Engine was studded by Guru(also known as xtreme rotaries) and it would randomly crack plates. Sometimes while on the dyno. Most of the time at the track. Can i just add the plates were no longer cracking from the oil gallery. But the cracks were starting at the wholes were the studs go around the spark plug area.
Eventually binned the whole motor, put 24 dowells in it and it has not cracked a plate since.
The dowells are also very small. Too big a dowell and you end up with the same problem as the stud kit.
Im down to 3 sets and I have 5 engines to build in the next 4 weeks. I may need to buy some if Edgar doesnt have a new batch in by then.
08-03-09, 10:54 PM
#70
mmm doritos
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thats odd..why does everyone say to get a stud kit when your gonna be pushing lots of horsepower? i thought the reason irons crack is due to a misfire 90% of the time...is that correct?
08-04-09, 04:47 PM
#72
Red Pill Dealer
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I bit of a noob here, but with a thought. I have always wondered how studding worked with the different expansion rates of the aluminum housings and the cast iron plates. Hell, I've wondered how Mazda got around the issue using the dowels.
There's a pretty big difference in the growth rates due to heat between cast iron and aluminum. Maybe this is why you guys were cracking plates?
Maybe a hole ovalled in the direction of expansion but still close tolerance fit along the "flats", in stead of a close fit round hole.
There's a pretty big difference in the growth rates due to heat between cast iron and aluminum. Maybe this is why you guys were cracking plates?
Maybe a hole ovalled in the direction of expansion but still close tolerance fit along the "flats", in stead of a close fit round hole.