chrism1

to be perfectly honest this is my first rotary and i love the hell out of it....i always read and heard about the debate piston vs rotary but to be honest i dont think i would go back on a regular basis...i do have a 626 for a winter beater....but everything i read on 7 and 8 club i have been absorbing and i do have to say the rotary is a much better motr in my opinion....and its a passionate owners motor because there is upkeep.....another reason why i love it....now lets all just shake hands and get along....both cars are friggen awesome in my humble opinion....just for different reasons!

RXCITED

WHAT? You call me a hater because I disagree or believe something different than you? I'm not a hater. I owned an 82 rx7 and a 84 gsl-se rx7 in the day. I loved those cars and totally respect them and the lineage. I'm somewhat knocking the 90's models( what are they called FD's) because they were overpriced, cheaply made, and poor design putting a turbo on a rotory without proper cooling. They were an embarassment to Mazda and I'd never own one. The Rx8 is a direct throw back to my 82 rx7. It was a reliable workingmans sportscar. Noone wanted the the FD models in the 90's. Overpriced and unreliable. They did'nt sell. Now the tuner set has discovered them as a classic very fast sportscar buying them used, and modding them. It's a car only a gear head could like.

Max5roadster

FYI, the our 8's are also suffering from cooling problems. This summer in Vegas and a few other southern hot spots, they were toasting engines - somewhere around 100 or so at this point. If you have not already read, please check this thread out:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=66842
Mazda has yet to issue a fix at this point, but it will likley include adding/messing with oil recommendation and the oil coolers themselves.
In addition there is another current recall that is thermal related (i.e. melting gas tanks):
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=66002

Our cars are great, but they are not the holy grail of rotaries. The FD was and still is a fantastic car, part of the problem of the time (much as we have today with the 8) is that new owners did not keep up proper rotary care. In fact, I just saw a thread this morning at rx8club with the tittle: "Is my car burning oil?" See what I mean?

RXCITED

Our cars are great, but they are not the holy grail of rotaries. The FD was and still is a fantastic car, part of the problem of the time (much as we have today with the 8) is that new owners did not keep up proper rotary care. In fact, I just saw a thread this morning at rx8club with the tittle: "Is my car burning oil?" See what I mean?[/QUOTE]

Yes I've been keeping up with that. Mazda's 5 year warranty is covering all that. If I get a new engine out of it all the better. So far I've had no problems with the car at 12k and we've had a very hot summer. Mazda is invested in the renesis for the long haul. They'll clean up any bugs that surface in the car. This motor is going to be great. The rx8 is still very dependable car. Those FD's were fast but very rough riding and unreliable. Guys like me avoided them and prayed for the return of the rotory engine after emissions killed it. Many times during that period I was tempted to buy another 1st gen. What a great little car it was. The stupidest thing I ever did was trade it on z28 Iroc in 86. what a mistake that was and another story all together. I really don't care waht Mazda calls the supercharged renesis. As long as it's reliable and priced for the average working man. Otherwise I may as well buy a used Porsche boxter.

evilbada1

i own an 8 as well, but i'd take an FD anyday over 8 if i could afford it.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

like we said before, you cant compare the new 8 now to a 13 year old FD..of course things are smooth and awesome with the 8 because its still new..put some miles and age on it like like you see on the regular FD thats on the market of today, i bet you wont get any better results..

the improper care like you said destroyed the FD reputation..aside from the poor craftsmanship mazda did..these cars are lonnnnggg from being forgotten, still popular to this day..i mentioned that we're already in the 6th year of the new decade, already starting the second half and the FD's, hell even the FC's are still popular like it just came out..how do you explain that? because its cheap? well if they were soo poorly made and had problems, why do people still bother? when they can just get a brand new car with a warranty and be happy?

RXCITED

IT'S YOUR MONEY BRO. If you can afford an 8 you can afford a used FD so go for it. I'll stick with the 8. It's all the car I want.

Shinobi-X

Interesting seeing as how mazda continued to make them until 2002. I'd say Mazda was quite proud of the FD, but like any car in existence, it had its imperfections which recieved attention in successive years (just as they do with the 8). On US shores though, it was easily one of the most dominant sports cars out of the box, but sadly went under do to a multitude of reasons that were not exclusive to it. 90s = a poor era for imported cars to the US period- there was no engineering or politics that were going to save the FD.

Giving praise to the RX-8 is understandable, but lets not make it out to be more than it is- N/A rotaries have long had a tradition of being reliable...Mazda didn't do anything drastic with the renesis in regards to longevity we may or may not see. The car barely met regulation, and its part of the reason the hp number got bumped down for US export. Also, I wouldn't make any long term subjective guesses on the engine, until the car ages a bit more...we all know it saw its share of set backs upon release. You said your car has 12k miles on it...its a baby...let the 8 run its course a bit, and see how well it takes to mods in order to get some consistent and objective results before inferring that its the "holy grail of rotaries".

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

exactly..the car is still new..just wait a while..i guess people forgot about when the first FD hit the streets over 10 years ago..its the same thing now with the 8..

RXCITED

Ulost

I never said the FC was cheap. I already gave the reasons for the rotory popualarity. Car enthisiasts love them.
The modern rx8 has alot less isssues than the FD. It's the future of rotory design.

Fd's are much easier to mod. The tuner set is snatching em up. Most joe public are'nt interested in them. Your a rotory tuner enthusiasts. I'm just a rotory engine enthisiast. I don't need 400 rwhp. 238 crank is enough for me. i would like a convertible if they make it. the rx8 attracts the general public. Important for sales. That's the reason many rx8 drivers cannot recognize an rx7 or wave. Far as they know they have a v6.

Shinobi-X

The short block of the FD wasn't the realest problem, it was the support systems. To make claim that the renesis is the future holds true, but not for the reasons you're claiming. Challenges with emissions, more than reliability are holding rotaries back right now (again, NA rotaries already have a history of reliability).


Turbo cars usually are easier to mod, do to the fact that you really only have to raise boost among other things in order to make power...hence why the 13B-REW is the more potent performance engine. The attention to detail in this format, wasn't met with the same respects in the RX-8, which Mazda is claiming to be a sports car, though not to the calibur of the 7 (interestingly enough while 238hp may be enough for you, most tuners and mazda alike admit that they need more torque).

If you're going to make the argument that the 8 is superior, then you can't in the same breath say that its aimed at the general public. The target audience of the 7 and 8 are/were largely different, and in order to differentiate, they created the 8- the 7 still has its core audience within the performance realm battling supras, porsches, vettes, etc. in many forms of competition racing.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

well well put

Nghtstlkr7

true dat....

at least there are SOME 8 owners out there that recognize the heritage. usually when i see an 8 (and nine times out of ten its some mid-aged woman driving it) i pull up next to it and then slightly ahead so they can see my car... and see the RX-7 badge on it. most times the just stare straight ahead in their own little world... oblivious to the comraderie. i just shake my head... its shameful.

RXCITED

Shinobi,

Your mis- qouting me. I never said the base 13b was inferior. I had a gsl-se and they run forever. I stated the FD Twin tubo as designed was inferior. They're known as 50k cars because they melt down that soon. Mazda combined this with cheap workmanship and damaged the rotory reputation.

Sure it was fast but well known as an overpriced unreliable sportscar. It was not up to par with the competition.

The rx8 is superior as a modernday car to the RX7 regardless of target group. It has everthing the rx7 did not except torque , which is natural for a non -tubo rotory. Everything about the car is high tech and far advanced over 90's technology. Mazda kept what works and greatly improved on it in the RX8. It will also pave the way for future turbo and supercharged models. Modern cars and new emission laws and locked ecu's are harder than ever to mod. Future laws will make it even harder. The rx-8 will pave the way for the rotory revival and survival and probably bring the 300hp 250 tq rotory cars to you that you desire.

So show some respect.

Force13B

iTrader: (19)

BATTLE, my nuts are bigger then yours!!!! WTF its a rotary at least they brought it back. I didn't mean it like omg the rx8 sucks. I like it i just think that they could have made it way faster then they did. RXCITED i didn't meen to get your panties in a wad, it wasn't ment as an attack but a 15.5 @ 92mph is not fast. I really hope they keep with the 8 and make a better performing one.

Shinobi-X

I knew what your point was, and I'm still saying its wrong- you preach on about the reliability of the Renesis, yet your car only has 12k miles on it... My original FD engine was fine into the 100k mile range, and NA 7s before that can make 200K+ miles. Case in point? The renesis isn't this monumental leap in techonology, and its not going to do anything new that past rotaries haven't already done in terms of reliability...

On par? It was easily competing with the likes of the NSX- a car whos pricetag was far greater than that of the 7. The RX-7 easily rivaled the competition if you look at most numbers, and in quite a few cases came out on top. Overpriced? Perhaps...but thats what will happen when you have a recession in the early 90s, as well as a weak japanese yen competing with the US dollar. On top of many vehicles pulling out of the sports car market, the mid-late 90s saw the birth of the SUV craze. I'd say it was more a case of bad timing than anything with the FD, as the car recieved much praise for its engineering and attention to detail. You just tend to focus on issues that matured years down the line by owners who neglected the car in the first place. You see the same pattern with the RX-8.

Right, put a stock 8 against a stock 7 in 0-60, 0-100, 1/4mile test, put them both around a road course, or in a situation for top end speed and lets see which "sports car" (as they should be competing in sports competition, including contest of speed/time attack, if they carry the title) outshines the other... Superior is a relative term, and with Mazdas current marketing trend, they don't seem to agree with your claim.

The 8's powerband is weaker than the FD, and it weighs more period. The 8 does a lot well, but it doesn't do everything the FD can...which is why it wasn't titled the next 7.

As it should be...but does this render 90s technology obsolete? Hardly...if by high technology, you mean better safety equipment and the likes, sure....but there are quite a few "low tech" cars that would lay waste to the 8 quite easily (no offense to you humble 8 owners).

Hats off to Mazda if the future is brighter, but as for the present, the 8 is not a car to fear performance wise...

Done that on the last post on the previous page to the members who deserved it. BTW, you're on a 7 board flaming the FD for reasons you don't understand...and its a car that predates yours in the lineage...yet you're trying to tell me to show some respect? Respect is earned around here, not granted by number sequence...

POS7

They're known as 50k cars partially because idiots don't do proper maintenance & mod the **** out of it without taking precautions. The "cheap worksmanship" as you put it is evident in all car designs (its called the results of mass production). Also, the car was built with weight savings in mind. I believe this is the main reason for the cheapness of the interior, lightweight body, and frame.

The FD was not up to par with the competition? Are you talking power wise or handling wise? The FD still owns in either category....

Duh, everything about the car is high tech and far advanced over 90's technology. If it wasn't, Mazda would be out of business. Even the new mazda3, mazda6, honda civic, etc has better technology than the 90s

The rx8 lacks torque. The torque figure needs to be similar to the horsepower rating. Not trying to hate, but it lacks *****. It feels like how my mom's sentra would feel with a 9k rev line. A month after I test drove the rx8, I bought my 7...


FDs are turbo, that's why they respond so well to mods. Most joe public aren't interested? The Fd turns heads, plain and simple. If I happen to mention to someone that I have one, they usually will know about the car, envy the car, and ask me questions about it.

What the hell? Its a sports car. If you want something slow, smooth riding, and reliable get a Honda civic.

Madrx7racer

true dat

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

pos7 and shinobi are on point in this thread

Shinobi-X

MakoRacing

iTrader: (12)

Agreed, and reading RXCITED's posts were good for a laugh

Max5roadster

It's not the difference of opinion that matters, but rather the presentation. Your immediate opening line was essentially telling them they no absolutely 0 about the 8. Do you honestly believe the same crowd that has been pushing for the return of the rotary did not follow the development of the rx8 - the return of the rotary? Moreover, I feel you are glancing over a lot of flaws with the 8, failing to mention the number of recalls (4-5), as well as some of the common problems like rattles, rather noisy throwout bearings, etc... If you want the 7 owners to respect you/us, the first step is to not insult them. Then to step back and take a good, honest evaluation of the 8 - see it for what it was meant to be. Then take a good evaluation of the 7 to see it for what it was meant to be. And at last, appreciate both for what they are: 2 very unique automobiles meeting the market needs of their respective times.

Max5roadster

Oh, and if one of you FD owners putting around in your tin cans would like to donate that throw-away slug, please send it to me for proper disposal

chrism1

i couldnt agree with you more!

RXCITED

I COULD CARE LESS, if you or any of the rx7 yahoos respect me. I'm saying show some respect to your upward modern lineage. All you do is cry that noone in a rx8 recognizes your lineage then turn around and dis the most efficient modern rotory of all time. You do it constantly on this one sided biased forum. The FD rx7 was overpriced. If not for that and emission changes it would probally have been perfected and still be here. Instead, all you sensitive rx7 forum people do is cry because a different rotory has taken it's place. Like I said, live with it and welcome to reallity.