My FD vs. motorcycle, part 2 =-D
04-30-05, 07:10 PM
#76
Ho's and Cadillac Doors
Originally Posted by FDNewbie
Hmmm. Maybe you should read a bit closer. I raced the Gixer (a street legend) up to ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILES PER HOUR. That's halfway to 200mph, or 100 mph, + another 50 
If that's not considerably beyond 100mph, well...sorry, my car just isn't fast enough to break the sound barrier... 
And at 120mph, all I saw was his helmet turn to me as he went from my front fender, to my rearview.
I'm not getting into an argument. When the Gixer driver turns his head in shock, then comes back to give me a thumbs up... or the Z06 guy gives me a big thumbs up and a wave, or the RC51 guy puts his hand up motioning "no more," that's what HAPPENED, not speculation from someone who thinks they know how not fast something is that he doesn't own or drive. I can only draw conclusions about what I have and what I've done. I have an FD which I've raced and won against bikes. Case and point.
And if possible, you can do the smart thing and read more closely. fcrx88 did the smart thing. No BS flags, no "I don't believe it" crap. He said "lets run." He seems to know a hell of a lot about bikes and I'd imagine is a real good rider (which is why I think I'll prob lose, or it'll be VERY close). So chill, and we'll have something solid, not just your speculation.
If that's not considerably beyond 100mph, well...sorry, my car just isn't fast enough to break the sound barrier... And at 120mph, all I saw was his helmet turn to me as he went from my front fender, to my rearview.
I'm not getting into an argument. When the Gixer driver turns his head in shock, then comes back to give me a thumbs up... or the Z06 guy gives me a big thumbs up and a wave, or the RC51 guy puts his hand up motioning "no more," that's what HAPPENED, not speculation from someone who thinks they know how not fast something is that he doesn't own or drive. I can only draw conclusions about what I have and what I've done. I have an FD which I've raced and won against bikes. Case and point.
And if possible, you can do the smart thing and read more closely. fcrx88 did the smart thing. No BS flags, no "I don't believe it" crap. He said "lets run." He seems to know a hell of a lot about bikes and I'd imagine is a real good rider (which is why I think I'll prob lose, or it'll be VERY close). So chill, and we'll have something solid, not just your speculation.
I don't need to chill, the only people I see getting riled up on here are you guys. Never once did I raise the BS flag or call any of you a liar. If I recall, I said that I don't think they were racing you, or they were bad riders. Maybe someone else should read closer?
04-30-05, 07:17 PM
#77
Ho's and Cadillac Doors
Originally Posted by FDNewbie
He said "lets run." He seems to know a hell of a lot about bikes and I'd imagine is a real good rider (which is why I think I'll prob lose, or it'll be VERY close). So chill, and we'll have something solid, not just your speculation.
You just said yourself, "you imagine he is a real good rider so you will probably lose". So why is there such a big arguement going on right now when I said that the people you beat were probably bad riders? I think I just settled the entire argument right there.
Look, come back and report the results of what happened in the race. If I get proven wrong, I'll gladly admit it.
04-30-05, 07:33 PM
#78
Ho's and Cadillac Doors
Rolling resistance?
You mean four 245 series (or whatever width or staggered setup is being run) vs. 2 much, much smaller tires? How does rolling resistance come into place exactly?
You mean four 245 series (or whatever width or staggered setup is being run) vs. 2 much, much smaller tires? How does rolling resistance come into place exactly?
04-30-05, 07:51 PM
#79
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2ndGen.rocket
First off, don't ever refer to me as clown. If I recall you're a newb around these parts.
Second of all, never did I refute what you said in your posts. However, the points you're bringing up aren't in favor of the FD at all. Torque? Ha! "Torque" and "Rotary" don't belong in the same sentence. Gearing? Most superbikes run a close ratio 6 speed, and when in a straight run to redline it is pretty rare for a bike to drop out of it's powerband when shifting.
As far as powerbands are concerned, yes you're right.
And I don't need a lecture on the theory of aerodynamics at speed, I'm well aware.
Second of all, never did I refute what you said in your posts. However, the points you're bringing up aren't in favor of the FD at all. Torque? Ha! "Torque" and "Rotary" don't belong in the same sentence. Gearing? Most superbikes run a close ratio 6 speed, and when in a straight run to redline it is pretty rare for a bike to drop out of it's powerband when shifting.
As far as powerbands are concerned, yes you're right.
And I don't need a lecture on the theory of aerodynamics at speed, I'm well aware.
Like I said I have no idea what the FD makes for torque.
I'm not saying the FD can outrun any bike it meets up by any means, all I'm saying is that it is not impossible to beat a bike, it happens quite often and when it does the advantage is with the car only at higher speeds.
For someone that says they are well aware of "aerodynamics at speed" you sure haven't shown that since you keep refering to the whole "power to weight" ratio.
Do a little more research clown.
04-30-05, 08:14 PM
#80
Ho's and Cadillac Doors
Well I guess I can't argue with that! You're the winner! Douche.
As I said before after FDNewbies suggestion, let's stop arguing about this and see what happens. Then we can start it up again.
As I said before after FDNewbies suggestion, let's stop arguing about this and see what happens. Then we can start it up again.
04-30-05, 08:33 PM
#81
rotary sensei
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2ndGen.rocket
So basically all you are saying is that anywhere over 100mph your car will beat a bike? That still leaves out alot of explaining, seeing as how none of these races have gone much beyond 100mph. Not to mention, my bike still pulls like a bastard over 100mph. I agree that a bike is not the most aerodynamic of machines, however the power to weight ratio is still phenomenally better than yours, and more than enough to compensate I'd say.
I'm not going to get into another argument with FD owners about how fast their cars are because it's always been a real sore spot and an argument that they will refuse to lose.
And if possible, I'd like to see a video of a 360hp FD pulling that hard above 120mph.
I'm not going to get into another argument with FD owners about how fast their cars are because it's always been a real sore spot and an argument that they will refuse to lose.
And if possible, I'd like to see a video of a 360hp FD pulling that hard above 120mph.
350 lbs divided by 65hp = 1:5.3
2700 lb divided by 360 hp=1:7.5
Guess what would happen?
Last edited by Mr rx-7 tt; 04-30-05 at 08:59 PM.
04-30-05, 08:36 PM
#82
rotary sensei
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Post by Steve Kahn...
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...light=hayabusa
"to give you an idea what a car is capable of in a 1/4 mile track
an average Busa runs approx 6.6-6.7's at around 121mph and they trap the 1/4 at around 140-142mph.
That's about a 20-22mph gain in the last 1/8 mile
an modified car (let's take mine for an example) runs anywhere from a 6.5-6.8 in an 1/8 at 105-107mph and trap the 1/4 at around 136-139mph.
That's about 30-33mph gain in the last 1/8 mile.
You can see that a car accelerates alot faster than a bike in the last 1/8 mile because the drag comes into play on the bike. You can look at any other drag times on any descent hp car (even BPU rx7 or BPU supras) and compare it to any bikes and analyze the last 1/8mile of the trap speed difference. you'll see that they average around 30mph gain from the last 1/8 in a car. Bike on the other hand is about 20mph max....
So you can see, areodynamics really come into play in a bike much higher as the speed increases in the last 1/8"
You might want to read the thread.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...light=hayabusa
"to give you an idea what a car is capable of in a 1/4 mile track
an average Busa runs approx 6.6-6.7's at around 121mph and they trap the 1/4 at around 140-142mph.
That's about a 20-22mph gain in the last 1/8 mile
an modified car (let's take mine for an example) runs anywhere from a 6.5-6.8 in an 1/8 at 105-107mph and trap the 1/4 at around 136-139mph.
That's about 30-33mph gain in the last 1/8 mile.
You can see that a car accelerates alot faster than a bike in the last 1/8 mile because the drag comes into play on the bike. You can look at any other drag times on any descent hp car (even BPU rx7 or BPU supras) and compare it to any bikes and analyze the last 1/8mile of the trap speed difference. you'll see that they average around 30mph gain from the last 1/8 in a car. Bike on the other hand is about 20mph max....
So you can see, areodynamics really come into play in a bike much higher as the speed increases in the last 1/8"
You might want to read the thread.
Last edited by Mr rx-7 tt; 04-30-05 at 08:41 PM.
04-30-05, 08:40 PM
#83
rotary sensei
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...light=hayabusa
Pluto is right about the acceleration of bikes.
Given:
Street bikes typically have ~100 -165 rwhp. RX-7s have 255 – insane rwhp.
Top speed is ONLY a function of horsepower and drag. Weight is not a factor.
We all know what HP is, but drag coefficient (CD A) is the, Friction Coefficient (think brake pads) x Frontal Area. The friction coefficient is slightly higher on the Busa+rider, BUT the fontal area is significantly less.
Busa - CD A of 3.37 ft2
RX-7 - CD A of 6.12 ft2
Hence, the RX-7 requires 2x more power to push through the air. Coincidently, this RX-7 has >2x the power; +400hp vs. 160 rwhp.
In acceleration the bike has an inertial advantage because it weighs less. It also has a drag advantage because it has a small frontal area. But wind is such a huge factor at high speed (exponential), the bike must use most of its power to fight the wind, while the car has power left to continue accelerating.
KneeDragonR1
Pluto is right about the acceleration of bikes.
Given:
Street bikes typically have ~100 -165 rwhp. RX-7s have 255 – insane rwhp.
Top speed is ONLY a function of horsepower and drag. Weight is not a factor.
We all know what HP is, but drag coefficient (CD A) is the, Friction Coefficient (think brake pads) x Frontal Area. The friction coefficient is slightly higher on the Busa+rider, BUT the fontal area is significantly less.
Busa - CD A of 3.37 ft2
RX-7 - CD A of 6.12 ft2
Hence, the RX-7 requires 2x more power to push through the air. Coincidently, this RX-7 has >2x the power; +400hp vs. 160 rwhp.
In acceleration the bike has an inertial advantage because it weighs less. It also has a drag advantage because it has a small frontal area. But wind is such a huge factor at high speed (exponential), the bike must use most of its power to fight the wind, while the car has power left to continue accelerating.
KneeDragonR1
04-30-05, 08:52 PM
#84
Ohhh...it's gettin so hot up in here, I'mma bout to throwdown! Seriously guys...just let it go. MANY people have said they've personally walked bikes at higher speeds. If you still don't believe that, lets just leave things as is for now, until the race, on video
Seriously guys...just let it go. MANY people have said they've personally walked bikes at higher speeds. If you still don't believe that, lets just leave things as is for now, until the race, on video
04-30-05, 08:53 PM
#85
rotary sensei
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2ndGen.rocket
Rolling resistance?
You mean four 245 series (or whatever width or staggered setup is being run) vs. 2 much, much smaller tires? How does rolling resistance come into place exactly?
You mean four 245 series (or whatever width or staggered setup is being run) vs. 2 much, much smaller tires? How does rolling resistance come into place exactly?
Last edited by Mr rx-7 tt; 04-30-05 at 08:57 PM.
04-30-05, 08:55 PM
#86
rotary sensei
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by FDNewbie
Ohhh...it's gettin so hot up in here, I'mma bout to throwdown! Seriously guys...just let it go. MANY people have said they've personally walked bikes at higher speeds. If you still don't believe that, lets just leave things as is for now, until the race, on video
Seriously guys...just let it go. MANY people have said they've personally walked bikes at higher speeds. If you still don't believe that, lets just leave things as is for now, until the race, on video Facts are a hard thing for some...
04-30-05, 09:05 PM
#87
rotary sensei
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lastly, good article.
http://www.qsl.net/n5mya/aero.html
The ZX-12R has a frontal area of 6.09 ft2 (0.566 m2),
physically larger than the Hayabusa, which is 6.01 ft2 (0.558 m2). But
the advantage for the Suzuki is not just in frontal area. With figures
for both drag and frontal area, it's possible to calculate the coefficient
of drag, which is 0.603 for the 12R and 0.561 for the Hayabusa. The
winner of this wind tunnel shootout is the Suzuki.
It's worth remembering, however, that neither of these Cd figures indicate
a particularly impressive degree of streamlining, since even a typical
passenger car has a Cd of less than 0.60 and some models are lower than
0.30. A fully streamlined Bonneville speed-record bike might have a
Cd of 0.10. Such is the nature of streetbikes, where performance derives
mostly from extreme power-to-weight ratios.
http://www.qsl.net/n5mya/aero.html
The ZX-12R has a frontal area of 6.09 ft2 (0.566 m2),
physically larger than the Hayabusa, which is 6.01 ft2 (0.558 m2). But
the advantage for the Suzuki is not just in frontal area. With figures
for both drag and frontal area, it's possible to calculate the coefficient
of drag, which is 0.603 for the 12R and 0.561 for the Hayabusa. The
winner of this wind tunnel shootout is the Suzuki.
It's worth remembering, however, that neither of these Cd figures indicate
a particularly impressive degree of streamlining, since even a typical
passenger car has a Cd of less than 0.60 and some models are lower than
0.30. A fully streamlined Bonneville speed-record bike might have a
Cd of 0.10. Such is the nature of streetbikes, where performance derives
mostly from extreme power-to-weight ratios.
04-30-05, 09:11 PM
#88
Ho's and Cadillac Doors
Hey I can't argue with physics and I'm not gonna try, I'll concede so this ends. Now lets do this and see what happens. I'll be waiting for the vid, PM me after it happens.
05-01-05, 12:03 AM
#89
rotary sensei
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2ndGen.rocket
Hey I can't argue with physics and I'm not gonna try, I'll concede so this ends. Now lets do this and see what happens. I'll be waiting for the vid, PM me after it happens.
Last edited by Mr rx-7 tt; 05-01-05 at 12:05 AM.
05-01-05, 08:06 AM
#90
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr rx-7 tt
The 600 making 110 whp vs the RX-7 is going to be pretty close, don't know the conversion factor on the bike, rw vs flywheel. The bikes making 130 bhp plus will be faster.
Just FYI though it's usually between an 8 and 10% redution from crank to wheel HP.
05-02-05, 10:26 AM
#93
rotary fiend
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: damascus
Posts: 570
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
man ive missed some serious hardcore conversation going on. my personall thought is hes gonna walk all over me. i drag race a lot so i have geared to accelerate fast. if we go from a dead stop ill probably put 5-6 carlengths on him in my first gear. but from a roll i thinks going to pull me up top. this isnt exactly the close comparison you guys are imagining because im modded for 1/4 mile racing. did you guys read the race between me and the v12 benz sedan. his front bumper was on my back wheel the entire race all the way to 150. and thats a sedan. bikes are fast but there are some really fast cars out now. and ive been riding for years so im no squid either.
05-02-05, 10:29 AM
#94
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by fcrx88
man ive missed some serious hardcore conversation going on. my personall thought is hes gonna walk all over me. i drag race a lot so i have geared to accelerate fast. if we go from a dead stop ill probably put 5-6 carlengths on him in my first gear. but from a roll i thinks going to pull me up top. this isnt exactly the close comparison you guys are imagining because im modded for 1/4 mile racing. did you guys read the race between me and the v12 benz sedan. his front bumper was on my back wheel the entire race all the way to 150. and thats a sedan. bikes are fast but there are some really fast cars out now. and ive been riding for years so im no squid either.
what is gearing are you running compaired to stock?
05-02-05, 11:10 AM
#95
rotary sensei
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by fcrx88
man ive missed some serious hardcore conversation going on. my personall thought is hes gonna walk all over me. i drag race a lot so i have geared to accelerate fast. if we go from a dead stop ill probably put 5-6 carlengths on him in my first gear. but from a roll i thinks going to pull me up top. this isnt exactly the close comparison you guys are imagining because im modded for 1/4 mile racing. did you guys read the race between me and the v12 benz sedan. his front bumper was on my back wheel the entire race all the way to 150. and thats a sedan. bikes are fast but there are some really fast cars out now. and ive been riding for years so im no squid either.
05-04-05, 11:42 AM
#97
Back from the dead
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Has anyone else besides myself ever been on an RC51? Those bikes are doo doo feces compared to other bikes of today. They are as heavy as a busa, and powerful as a 750. They are 1000cc, but they have a twin engine not an inline. The bike sounds horrible (twins), but in its defense handles great. They cost less than most liter bikes, but I can count on one hand how many I've seen on the street in the last couple of years. In summary, they are fast, but not as fast as one might think. Nice kill though.
05-04-05, 11:51 AM
#98
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by are_one
Has anyone else besides myself ever been on an RC51? Those bikes are doo doo feces compared to other bikes of today. They are as heavy as a busa, and powerful as a 750. They are 1000cc, but they have a twin engine not an inline. The bike sounds horrible (twins), but in its defense handles great. They cost less than most liter bikes, but I can count on one hand how many I've seen on the street in the last couple of years. In summary, they are fast, but not as fast as one might think. Nice kill though.
05-05-05, 08:38 AM
#99
rotary fiend
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: damascus
Posts: 570
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ya ive ridden one as well and they are a slouch up top. and there actually more expensive than a 04 gsxr 1000. i work at a dealer so i know what im talking about. i love that twin sound though and i would get one and mod the crap out of it if they werent so damn uncomfortable.
