Naegleria_Fowleri

I own an FB and an FE. I've got to be honest, I much prefer the FB. The FB is and always will be my baby, which is why I'm shelling out so much money to get it to exactly how I want it. My FE, on the other hand, is much better built, has better handling, and is significantly faster. (Wondering why I like the FB better already, I'm sure.)

The feeling you get when you drive the FB - that connected feeling, its irreplaceable. The more technology that goes into cars, the less connected you feel. I will say this - the FE is one of the most connected feeling cars I've driven new, and I've driven quite a lot of new cars. I love the FE, for sure. Its an absolutely amazing car, but it is still expendable in my mind. It may not be easily expendable (I'm thinking about trading it in on the '09 revamped model, R3 package or a used 911 if I can find one), but it isn't a car I think about owning for the remainder of my life like I do my FB.

This thread did provide me with tons of laughs, though. I've never driven an FD, but from everything I've heard from people who own both is that the Rx8 handles better, or perhaps just in a more predictable fashion, which just means that it is easier for the average person to drive faster in the corners.

I've also noticed that there aren't very many people out there who drive Rx8's that know how to drive them. I've noticed on average that drivers do only pull out mid 15 second passes in the quarter mile, but they also don't shift at redline and they run with traction control on. I've also read that someone made a 14.3 pass on a completely stock FE, so I'm quite sure that its just a sports car that people are buying because of appearance and not much else.

At least, the only reason I own one is because I'm such a rotary fan and I wanted one as a daily driver. I will, however, be putting on a straight pipe to replace the cats. I've heard that it does add a decent amount of power.

And to whoever said something in regards to tinkering with the car - you're a complete idiot. Ford will never engineer a car to be as good as it can be, and they will always skimp out on engineering parts to cheapen it up some. Anyone with half a bit of knowledge in how engineering works would know for a fact that if simple bolt ons don't do much gain in power it is because of how well engineered the car is on that front. Slopping pieces together that simply work is what American car companies are known for. It is not what was done with the Rx8 by any means.

Buzzardsluck

because we all know real sports cars and their drivers are judged by their 1/4 mile times.

i personally will never turn a good time in my cars at the drag strip because to do it right requires putting quite a bit of abuse on the cars' drivetrain.
i do agree that the R3 model and those mazdaspeed seats look pretty good.

TK7

iTrader: (6)

no, i agreed that in the rx8's case, the engineering is
very good from the factory.....or should i say, as i already did, the best it can be....which is not "good enough" in my eyes.


"Anyone with half a bit of knowledge in how engineering works would know for a fact that if simple bolt ons don't do much gain in power it is because of how well engineered the car is on that front."-

thats correct. never argued that, dont know why im an idiot.

Rootski

Naegleria, I think it's unfair to say that those only pulling 15's in the 1/4 "bought the car only for looks." You have to be an experienced drag racer or very lucky to launch a stock FE properly. Take yours to a drag strip and see what I mean.

But more news: BHR and MazdaManiac have just started taking pre-order for joint-venture turbo kit capable of over 350hp for $6500. Mazsport has also just announced it will release a "tuner version" of its kit for $5500 promising 300-340hp with room to grow.

Naegleria_Fowleri

Yeah. That isn't exactly how I meant it. Sorry about that. I'm not saying I could dip into the 14's myself, but I didn't buy the car for anything other than daily commute. What I was meaning is that no one I've heard of buying an Rx8 has bought it to win in racing, it is just more of having a car that can do anything (haul four people reasonably comfortably, be a daily driver, and still be fun), whereas the people who buy Rx7's are generally buying them to be faster than most other things on the road.

Archie

iTrader: (-1)

Sounds interesting. 350 crank or wheel hp?

Rootski

Not sure. Here's the thread:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=147041

dozer

people CMON, i see people on here comparing thier fd to an 8, you simply cant compare FI to NA, our twin rotor isnt a f*ckin 5.7 liter v8 or v12 or some ****...but if you go NA vs NA your gonna get some similar results....cmon people, THINK about it....

Yellow R1

An RX-8 handling better than an FD? Funny stuff.

RX-8 = .88 G
'93 R1: 1.01 G (on inferior V rated 225/50 16" rubber no less)

It only gets worse when the FD wears updated rims & rubber.

An FD is a purpose built track car that out accelerates, outbrakes, & outhandles an RX-8. Mod a 7 properly & it will still embarrass 95% of even the modded serious sports cars on the road today (this can not be done with an 8).

Sorry, FDs are superior sports cars in every respect to the RX-8 (which is a "sporty car"...a light GT).

TK7

iTrader: (6)

^ thats well said. each car is built for different reason. and each car is awesome for its own reasons!

TheAbsence

iTrader: (19)

Thats true. RX-8 is comfortable, practical, and reliable.

Yellow R1

FDs are reliable...although you must fix 2 design flaws which become more pronounced after the first 3 yrs or so:
1) replace the OEM turbo hoses with a silicon version (~$350 installed)
2) upgrade the radiator (ie a Koyo or Fluidyne) to help keep the engine temps down (~ $400 installed)

FDs have a bad reliability rep, in many cases, because people do not make these 2 chief upgrades (it's a purpose built track car & a minor investment to significantly increase longetivity & long term reliability is a wise course to take).

It's unfortunate many owners neglect adding fuel when they increase power (you will detonate the engine if/when it gets too lean which has a higher probability of occurance with FI if/when there is a boost spike or you get a bad tank of fuel). I drive my FD all the time - zero issues.

MmSadda

iTrader: (2)

Yes, actually, I am. What of it?
Well, then, you're misinformed. I'm not saying you're going to destroy an RX8 tranny by putting an intake and exhaust on the car.... but see how that transmission holds up with 500hp if anyone can even get that much out of an RX8.... then look at a FD or TII. I'm gonna guess either RX7's transmission will hold up better.

Rootski

You sure about that? Skidpads just don't tell the whole story. The secret to the RX8's handling is far superior chassis rigidity. On a road course the 7 will be far ahead of the 8 on the front straights but it'll be sniffing the 7's tailpipe on the back bendies. Then throw on better rubber than the stock Potenzas (might as well be trash bags wrapped around the wheels) and some sway bars and that's all it needs to match and exceed that 1.01 on the skidpad. Remember this "light GT" absolutely dominates B-Stock SCCA solo.

The brakes on an RX8 are also absolutely staggering. They won't just outbrake a 7- they'll outbrake a Gallardo. 80-0 is 110ft for an 8, 113 for Gallardo (Road & Track figures).

I'm sorry, the FD is a great car, but you're dreaming if you think it's a "purpose-built track car." A Porsche GT3 RS is a purpose-built track car- it comes with a harness and a roll cage, so there ya go. RX7's are great sports cars but they're no supercar. Enough of this knee-jerk "the 7 can't lose!" mentality. Your ***** does not shrink if the 8 does a few things better.

And it is a sports car- SRT4's are "sporty."

TheAbsence

iTrader: (19)

I've heard (yes, I admit I do not own an FD) from numerous performance shops that even in stock form the twin sequential turbos prove to be a non-reliable setup.

I wouldn't talk about reliability of an aftermarket setup of an FD, because part of that is the owner's build, and the other part the engineering of the aftermarket components in conjunction with the stock engine.

Wow, I've got to read up on RX-8s a bit more it seems.

TK7

iTrader: (6)

thats hilarious! i dare you to come "sniff my tail pipe" on any course you like. It simply will not happen. Even if you do take a corner half a second faster, it wont be enough to catch me. stock for stock

i cant find your road and track article. post it if you go it. but i did find Car and Drver figures.


"The braking distance from 70 mph dropped from an excellent 153 feet to an outstanding 145, but that was likely due to the $1095 Yokohama Advan Neova AD07 tires we opted for after the original Bridgestones wore out at 30,000 miles."

thats WAY different than road and track?

heres another little tid bit from that same article


"None of the RX-8's times touched those of our old 255-hp, 2884-pound twin-turbo RX-7, which put out 5.2-second rushes to 60 mph and 0.93-g skidpad runs"


"Of course, some of the fuel's energy went to motion, and the RX-8's 238 horsepower and 159 pound-feet of torque gave it initial acceleration times of 6.6 seconds to 60 mph and 15.1 seconds at 93 mph for the quarter. "



the article: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ce+page-2.html



HOWEVER! the same article does go on to brag on the rx8s reliablility vs the rx7. it says they stopped NINE times when testing the rx7!l lol. vs the rx8s 3 stops.








the 8 does do a few things better. it carries 4 people,it has cup holders, and its a little more reliable. it will not outperform the FD in any perfromance standpoint.

wolf_9782

the RX-7 FD is a pure bred sports car, the RX-8 is a half breed of a sports car/practical vehicle.

like archie said, its good for guys who have family but want to have fun when they can. the 8 can do both! it may not do as well as an FD in the fun part, but it can do it. this is all in regards to stock.

dozer

here we go again! the FDs HAVE to outperfom the 8, just on the simple fact that its a 2 door 2 seater FI car, itll be REALLY sad if an 8, being NA + 4 door and 4 seater with cupholders, can get good numbers compared to the FD...if the 8 came turboed, youd know it give you a run for your money...

Yellow R1

Err no, no 8 is going to be anywhere near my tailpipe. I absolutely CRUSH RX-8s at Laguna Seca in my R1....it's not even close. RX-8s weigh 3,000 lbs, my FD is 2,700. The FD has a lower center of gravity & is equipped with modern rubber - it's just not close. And yes, while you mod the 8, the FD also gets modded (like mine - sits an 1" lower on Eiback Pro springs, has thicker front & rear anti-sway bars, a +1 rim/tire set up with not only a wider footprint but softer compound, etc). So while you finally get to 1.01G, the FD is at 1.2G

Brake stats? You quoted 60-0 distances (which was 114 ft, not 110 ft which ironically enough is the FD's), yet listed 80-0. Lordy. Here's the 2004 road test from Road & Track for some objective data (other publications have the same braking stats for the 8 ranging from 114 - 118 ft for 60-0 stops): http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=4

And the only one "dreaming" about an FD not being a purpose built track car is you. You need to read up befor posting your drivel (brake stats anyone?). The R1 came equipped with twin oil coolers, a still stiffer suspension (increased spring rates), an air dam & rear spoiler, a thicker front sway bar , an engine bay mounted strut brace, etc. It's handling was compared by Danny Sullivan & the R&T staff in the Summer of '92 (on a race track through every conceiveable handling test) against the turbo Supra, 911 Turbo, Lotus Elise, Miata, 300XZ Turbo, Mitsubishi VR4, and Corvette (Z51 equipped). The RX-7 beat them all...handily. But hey, according to you & your worldly knowledge, it wasn't designed for track use (despite Mazda's car brochure that came with the vehicle).

Dozer, you can strap a JATO to a Yugo....it's still a Yugo. IF...if....if. The RX-8 is not a purpose built track car. It handles pretty well. The FD has world class handling - there is a significant difference.

matty

i like the stats but the most truthful thing posted in this thread was the fact that the unrealiable reputation was a result of shitty owners. man i cant stand what some people do to their car.

MY fd is the most reliable car i have owned. better then my dd toyota avalon , my old honda accord or my wifes lexus suv. and just think i beat the living **** out of my fd. i have never put a dollar into the car other then for upgrades. not one thing in 8 yrs. oh yeah the car is making 65% more hp then it did stock. also i have been running 15psi for 6 yrs. i am not talking 15 psi as my high setting and i run that once in awhile....i am saying that that the car hasnt seen anythin less then 15psi setting for 6 yrs. **** low boost. how bout that?

why is this? cause i bot a mint *** car that had 15k miles on it and b/c i did my research before upgrading it.

TK7

iTrader: (6)

no no no! my FD doesnt "HAVE" to outperform anything!!! there are countless faster cars! THE RX8 IS NOT ONE OF THEM! jeeez!


if the 8 came turboed, it probably would keep up or beat FDs! i have no problem with that. heck, id give anything if it did! hello daily driver! id buy one in a heart beat!


stop the fan boy crap, i love the rx8....but its not a pure sports car, cmon.

TheAbsence

iTrader: (19)

Oh ok. I was shocked when he said that the braking distance 80-0 was 114 feet. Thats amazing.

carcrazy

Yellow R1, I see you have 405 rwhp, is that with the original twin turbo setup? I agree with the other posters that setup was prone to reliability issues - manifesting to severe issues do mainly to heat - especially with mods.

The RX-7 (3rd gen) really turned out to be a balancing act with: a) heat, b) fuel, c) spark, and d) cooling. If you could balance them, you had something special that turned out to be better than stock in performance and reliability. Often though, that special something you came up with, did not pass smog and miserably failed the visual by smog inspectors and law enforcement.

This is the reason I had to move past the RX-7 love - just too much 'law' involved to get what I wanted when I could go down to the local car dealer and pick up something - all being completely legal. I was just past the near stock performance levels of the RX-7 R1. And, stating a stock RX-7 R1 could beat a stock 911 Turbo - I seriously think not. I had both at one time.

By the way, a RX-8 won its class at the Rolex 24 just recenting coming in overall 9th place - fairly awesome given it was the only RX-? ever to win the GT class at the Rolex 24. Here is the article: http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...ode=RX8&bhcp=1

RX-7 is a great car and would still have one in my garage if the laws were a little more kind to modifications. Howerver, I am not willing to own a car that I cannot scare myself in (like the 911 Turbo and E63) without getting a fix it ticket for smog, exhaust, or paying someone $500 to fix me up for the smog check - no thanks for that hassle. Stock, the RX-7 was fast and fun, but no supercar by any means. The RX-8 handles better than the RX-7 - stock for stock - drive one and find out. They are very fun and forgiving. I tracked my stock, then modified RX-7 as well as my 911 Turbo. The 911 exuded confidence with the RX-7 taking LOTS of cencentration to exact 80% of the time it took the 911 to go around the same track. In the end, the 911 Turbo was MUCH more capable.



Rick

Yellow R1

Rick my man,,......I agree with about 80% of your post...up to the point where you indicate the 911 Turbo handles better (and the same for the RX-8 handling better - it's not close - sorry I drive at Seca & they just weigh more & have a higher center of gravity...it's also backed by "yesteryear's" publications). BTW, RX-7s have earned more championships in various racing circuit venues than the RX-8 ever will . The RX-7 is 100% sports car. The RX-8 is a lightweight GT with absolutely no torque & not much more in the horsepower dept. To me, it's a 4 door S2000?...l.one man's opinion.

Ahhh, I found the '92 article. The RX-7 is not the car where you have exude concentration to get 80% of its performance, in fact, it's the 911 Turbo with its lift throttle response that demands the most attention in corners. The 911 Turbo has 62% of it's weight over its rear - not the best attribute on tight race track - Rick, can you say "oversteer"?

In summary, the RX-7 had the fastest lap time (yes, faster than even Porsche's uber $100,000 911 Turbo flagship), the highest lateral G#, & tied for 2nd in slalom speed. The competition was basically decimated on the Willow Springs race track by a first year 3rd gen RX-7 (actually - it was a beta car as it had not been been released to production yet & still had some issues to iron out - they mention it in the article). http://www.fd3s.net/magazine_article...article02.html

And yes, I'm running stock twins....they pull pretty well

See ya,
-Matt

carcrazy

If the RX-7 would have keep on morphing and getting better, my yellow 2001 911 Turbo would have been a yellow 2001 RX-7 in the garage (and probably selling because there is no time in my life to drive it with kids and work) as I just love the rotary motor. Mind you, I am comparing a 1993 RX-7 with a car 8 years younger and two generations further down the engineering road map. Thus, no real comparison stock for stock. That is neither here nor there...

Actually, just a small correction, the RX-7 did win a lot of races - but in the GTU class. The RX-8 that ran at the Rolex 24, was running in the GT class against some VERY formidable competition. There has to be kudos given for that feat.

Is the RX-8 a real sports car - yes. Does it live in an era where it must perform various roles and tasks just to be marketable - I think so. Until the next RX-7 manifests onto the public market, we must live with an RX-class sports car that does not serve up the cutting edge single purpose role the 1993 RX-7 served so admirably. Join your local Mazda club and let your voice be heard. Mazda is a great car company with a strong grass roots backing that listens to their customers and delivers fun and interesting automotive products.

Yellow R1, when you are at Streets of Willow for a track day, shoot me a PM or send me an email. I was planning on taking out the 911 or Merc with some other friends of mine too. I would love to give you a ride on the 911 or Merc. I was a driving instructor for the local Porsche club, now just doing the kart thing. I actually consult for Mazda and will try to make the next Mazda event at the track. I will let you know.

late

Rick