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Turn in Spacers

Old 07-15-02, 01:49 PM
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Turn in Spacers

Ok, folks I have a question for you. Has anyone here who runs CSP put turn in spacers on your car and gotten grief for it? I have the parts and would like to set my car up with them, but CSP rules do not allow it. I am not going to go to the Nationals or anything. I just want to pull the suspension all together.

What are your thoughts?
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Old 07-15-02, 10:08 PM
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Not sure what you mean by turn in spacers?

PaulC
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Old 07-16-02, 03:02 AM
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what is a turn in spacer?
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Old 07-16-02, 04:58 AM
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It's a spacer that goes between the strut/spindle assembly and the steering arm, it alters the front roll center y moving the balljoint down, believe it also affects the Ackerman as well.
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Old 07-16-02, 08:15 AM
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I don't know the Solo2 rules at all, but when I ran my car in ITA, it also was classed in CSP autox.

The spacers are legal in ITA only if they are welded to the bottom of the strut. The loophole in the rules that allows their use in ITA, is that you can use alternate struts.
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Old 07-16-02, 10:24 PM
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I run them in my Improved Production car here in OZ. (I got them in the US last year) Originally I felt they really helped my turn in, but I seem to be having some drama's with understeed mid/exit at the moment so I am less sure if these spacers are helping or not.
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Old 07-17-02, 01:06 AM
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Twister can you tell me more about the "drama's" that you are speaking about?

Here is what Jim Susko at G-Force sells:
Turn-in Spacers IT, EP, GT LEGAL $109.00

Lower to the limit of ITA rules without destroying your geometry. The Turn-In Spacers fit between the strut and steering arm/ball joint assembly to correct a stock
ackerman deficiency and restore the roll center to well above ground. This eliminates extreme roll center movement and provides more predictable turn-in. (Modifications to the tie rod adjuster hardware required.)

Note: "Any strut" is legal under SCCA rules. These spacers bolt separately to the strut and to the steering arm/ball joint assembly. As such, they remain "part of the strut assembly" when the steering arm/ball joint assembly is removed. Other brand "spacers," which employ only a through-bolt and become loose when the ball joint is removed, are strictly illegal. Restore front roll center after lowering Gives 100% Ackerman geometry 1 1/8" (for use with Panasport wheels), and 1 1/2" IT versions (for spun outer rims) are available

New!! New!! New!! New!!
2 1/4 GT version now available for use with 15" wheels! Adds 1 7/8 MORE roll center height correction than even the IT version for better ride/roll stiffness
relationship. Eliminate heavy, undamped sway bars and tune with your GT Panhard! New, stronger construction.....................................$ 129.00

URL - http://www.gforceengineering.net/products.htm


Mazda Comp has another name for them:
STEERING KNUCKLE RISER SPACER RX-7 ALL 1979-85
$70.90
Notes: Spacer is installed to put steering geometry back to stock position when suspension has been modified (lowered).

I just want to do the complete set up process for my car, and this is IT legal. Do any of you CSP guys check for these parts when you see a fast first gen?

Have you ever tried them?

It sounds like Twister has had both positive and negative experience with them.
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Old 07-17-02, 05:22 PM
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I had 10 sets of these made and am selling them for $55 a set with grade 8 bolts. I used to run them in CSP and never had any problems......I never raced at nationals either though. I did, however, run ProSolo and Solo2 divisionals and never had any problems.

pm me for pics.....cant get it to fit on here

Last edited by 1st7heaven; 07-17-02 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 07-17-02, 05:43 PM
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Just shrunk the pic., here they are. By the way, they are now anodized black.
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Old 07-18-02, 12:05 AM
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Thanks Heaven!
Hey those aspacers look nice will the increase the ackerman?
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Old 07-18-02, 05:25 AM
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Originally posted by Kill No Cone
Thanks Heaven!
Hey those aspacers look nice will the increase the ackerman?
Hi,

yep those are the spacers I run. Rohan Ambrose picked them up from Jim when he was in the US last year for me. I do not think these are the cause of my understeer problem, I am beginning to think I am running to much Camber (approx 5 degrees) for some of our tracks. Turn in is good, but like I said mid corner it starts to push and continues to push (understeer), so I have to back off a little which is not great at all! The car is a pure racecar, not a street /race car.
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Old 07-18-02, 09:31 AM
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They do increase ackerman. Again, mine just use 2 through bolts and sandwich between the lower control arm and strut housing. Basically, they are designed after the Mazda Comp. units but we have refined the machining on them.

I have 7 pairs left and will make more when I get low.

Hope I dont get in trouble for this but here is another item I am making.....the block under the oil filter neck for mechanical gauges. $40.00 with plugs, oil rings, studs, and a "T" for oil preasure and warning light.
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Old 07-18-02, 05:07 PM
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Looks great, I run a 'remote' filter and runt he oil temp from the remote unit, I do not have any photo's but will take some and post them if people wanted.
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Old 09-30-03, 02:58 PM
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If you are ITA legal you are CSP legal. For local,divisional and national. But you have to be full ITA and meet all the rules (log book is NOT required).
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Old 09-30-03, 04:11 PM
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I run the same spacers on Advance Design struts, Ground Control stuff, and have great turn-in with them. (Use them in 1981 GSL ex-CSP form and current AP form of car). They do greatly increase your ackerman , according to Jim, something like 70%. Susko told me of the difference they would make and they did what he says. Yes because of my big mouth saying something at a Divisional event, they were ruled Illegal. I argued that the way they were bolted, they were part of the strut. I argues that these were bolted on just like my struts were bolted to the car. No deal, CSP rules say they are illegal. Now, if you are not trying to win nationals, and you don't put them on and suddenly start totally whipping everyones a$$, then I would put them on and not say anything. If someone is going to look that hard to see them, remember they are tucked under the strut and hidden by all kinds of stuff right there, they might find them, but VERY unlikely. I don't advocate illegal mods, but this isn't like running a BP 13B either.

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Old 10-01-03, 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by 1st7heaven
They do increase ackerman. Again, mine just use 2 through bolts and sandwich between the lower control arm and strut housing. Basically, they are designed after the Mazda Comp. units but we have refined the machining on them.

I have 7 pairs left and will make more when I get low.

Hope I dont get in trouble for this but here is another item I am making.....the block under the oil filter neck for mechanical gauges. $40.00 with plugs, oil rings, studs, and a "T" for oil preasure and warning light.
Nope, sorry, yours will NOT correct ackerman. But they look nice and would be great for a street driven car. (I may buy a set for that price for my daily driver). Jim's spacers will not work on a street car due to the reduced turn radius. The only way to add ackerman is to rotate the steering arm, which your design doesnt do. Those who have g-force spacers know what Im talking about.
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Old 10-01-03, 10:52 AM
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According to Jim, the turn in spacers are no longer legal in the SP classes, so if there are some rulebook nazzies at your events you may be protested...
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Old 10-03-03, 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by Montrealer
According to Jim, the turn in spacers are no longer legal in the SP classes, so if there are some rulebook nazzies at your events you may be protested...
Your correct. They are specifically prohibited in SP.
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Old 10-03-03, 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by 1st7heaven
I had 10 sets of these made and am selling them for $55 a set with grade 8 bolts. I used to run them in CSP and never had any problems......I never raced at nationals either though. I did, however, run ProSolo and Solo2 divisionals and never had any problems.

pm me for pics.....cant get it to fit on here
I run a set of Steve's spacers on my car... Very good stuff...

No they're not technically legal for CSP, but I only run local events, and don't usually win anyway... (frikken miatas..) I like them on the street mainly..

Good stuff!

(and no, you probably won't get protested, because can you really even see them with the wheel on? exactly..


now if you're running at nationals or the big events, I'd lose 'em....
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