Suggestions for fixing oil catch can problem
10-06-03, 05:49 PM
#101
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Just read this thread again, and you seem to have problems w/ the oil draining under gravity.
Why not use a simplified version of my idea, and just use a small oil-pump. Or you could just us a windscreen-washer pump!! That way it'll drain whatever goes into the catchcan INSTANTLY
Plus I doubt you'll be able to hear the constant buzz over the engine when racing
Why not use a simplified version of my idea, and just use a small oil-pump. Or you could just us a windscreen-washer pump!! That way it'll drain whatever goes into the catchcan INSTANTLY
Plus I doubt you'll be able to hear the constant buzz over the engine when racing
10-06-03, 07:25 PM
#102
chairchild,
Although this approach is novel it still doesn't address the fact that all the while the catch can is filling it'd essentially emptying your oil pan! The soln. is two fold 1) keep the catch can empty and 2) return the "caught" oil to the oil pan and maintain a sufficient amount of oil in the pan to preclude oil starvation in those hi-G turns.
I do like the idea of a wahser fluid pump though...hmmm wonder if it is strong enough to pump oil though
Crispy
Although this approach is novel it still doesn't address the fact that all the while the catch can is filling it'd essentially emptying your oil pan! The soln. is two fold 1) keep the catch can empty and 2) return the "caught" oil to the oil pan and maintain a sufficient amount of oil in the pan to preclude oil starvation in those hi-G turns.
I do like the idea of a wahser fluid pump though...hmmm wonder if it is strong enough to pump oil though
Crispy
10-06-03, 08:50 PM
#103
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If not, just use more!! They're only cheap anyway.
You could run dry-sump to get over the oil starvation situation (see my post in "General Rotary Tech" section named "Oil exits" for my idea)
But I'll soon be doing some tests to see if a washer-pump can pump oil succesfully. I've already modified my OMP to run a resevoir, and I want my engine to run as many "home" modified bits as possible - I'm awkward like that
You could run dry-sump to get over the oil starvation situation (see my post in "General Rotary Tech" section named "Oil exits" for my idea)
But I'll soon be doing some tests to see if a washer-pump can pump oil succesfully. I've already modified my OMP to run a resevoir, and I want my engine to run as many "home" modified bits as possible - I'm awkward like that
10-10-03, 01:30 PM
#104
Rotary Freak
I had this problem with my ITS/ World Challenge style RX7 at high speed long radius corner tracks, like Mosport. I was generating 1.7 G's on the datalogging system. Ultimately I figured that losing up to a quart of oil into the catch can per race was a cost of doing business. At times it would stream down the side of my car.
After trying every simple fix, haven't tried pumping oil back into the pan yet with a pump, I found an old Mazdaspeed car preparation book for first gen imsa cars. In this book they suggested sectioning the oil fill pipe at the vent tube level. They welded around the fill pipe an oil separation canister with 2 new holes in the oil fill pipe. The oil pushes up the fill pipe to the holes, fills the canister then drains back through the lower hole whren g-forces subside. They also had a hose coming off the top of the canister (above the oil separation baffle plate) that ran to the vented catch can. I plan on using this method this winter and adding an Accusump to deal with the momentary oil pressure fluctuations.
If anyone wants further information PM me and I can scan the page out of the manual and e-mail the PDF file.
After trying every simple fix, haven't tried pumping oil back into the pan yet with a pump, I found an old Mazdaspeed car preparation book for first gen imsa cars. In this book they suggested sectioning the oil fill pipe at the vent tube level. They welded around the fill pipe an oil separation canister with 2 new holes in the oil fill pipe. The oil pushes up the fill pipe to the holes, fills the canister then drains back through the lower hole whren g-forces subside. They also had a hose coming off the top of the canister (above the oil separation baffle plate) that ran to the vented catch can. I plan on using this method this winter and adding an Accusump to deal with the momentary oil pressure fluctuations.
If anyone wants further information PM me and I can scan the page out of the manual and e-mail the PDF file.
10-12-03, 10:27 AM
#106
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Originally posted by chairchild
Or you could just us a windscreen-washer pump!!
Or you could just us a windscreen-washer pump!!
10-13-03, 09:06 PM
#107
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Well, it's only cheap, so if it breaks I can simply chuck it. If it does break under the heat, I can make a cooling system for the pump to make sure it stays cold using copper piping (the same stuff used for brake fluid pipes) and some antifreeze
And using a large heatsink with a couple of pc fans over it should suffice for a radiator - simply run the copper pipes around it to get maximum cooling ability
But even if the pumps break after that, I'll just buy an electronic oil pump!!
And using a large heatsink with a couple of pc fans over it should suffice for a radiator - simply run the copper pipes around it to get maximum cooling ability
But even if the pumps break after that, I'll just buy an electronic oil pump!!
10-14-03, 02:28 PM
#110
23racer,
Thanks for the diagram. Only trouble is this is kinda what the FD filler neck looks like! Vertical filler
neck with a right angle dogleg (reservior so to speak) with the upper filler neck and vent nipples located above the "dogleg." It is interesting though.
Crispy
Thanks for the diagram. Only trouble is this is kinda what the FD filler neck looks like! Vertical filler
neck with a right angle dogleg (reservior so to speak) with the upper filler neck and vent nipples located above the "dogleg." It is interesting though.
Crispy
10-14-03, 02:35 PM
#111
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Originally posted by chairchild
If it does break under the heat, I can make a cooling system for the pump to make sure it stays cold using copper piping (the same stuff used for brake fluid pipes) and some antifreeze
If it does break under the heat, I can make a cooling system for the pump to make sure it stays cold using copper piping (the same stuff used for brake fluid pipes) and some antifreeze
Any news?
12-11-03, 04:14 PM
#114
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23Racer,
Thanks for the info, I was having an issue with this early on, had no idea why my overflow can was getting full.. Fortunately (well, maybe not since I'm apparently not pulling the Gs you are yet), I don't fill the tank enough over a 35 minute session to be a problem. I just have to drain it after every race, and make sure the oil level is topped.
Thanks for the info, I was having an issue with this early on, had no idea why my overflow can was getting full.. Fortunately (well, maybe not since I'm apparently not pulling the Gs you are yet), I don't fill the tank enough over a 35 minute session to be a problem. I just have to drain it after every race, and make sure the oil level is topped.
12-17-03, 03:32 PM
#120
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Originally posted by CYM TKT
where do you guys buy the catch can?
where do you guys buy the catch can?
12-17-03, 08:20 PM
#121
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WTF!!!
You can MAKE one for around $30!! Get one of those in-car fire extinguishers,
# Remove the top valve thing, and fit a bolt into this
# Drill a hole in the bottom, and tap it to accept a pipe connection for the breather pipe
#Drill a hole about 2" away from the breather inlet and fit an air filter to it
JOB DONE!!!
You mount it so that the breather pipe is on the top, the bolt in the original "top" is now the drain-plug.
Dry-sump:
Make an alloy plate to fit over the bottom of the engine, tap a few oil-lines over the main drain points in the housings. Tap the point where the oil pickup is, and feed this into an 8 quart tank. Use a 2-stage scavenge pump on the other lines you've got, and dump this into the 8 quart tank.
And it's probably best to use a big oil-radiator to de-aeirate the oil as well, since the tank won't have all the neccesary bits on it to do that (unless you spend around $200!!)
The most expensive bit will be the pumps (around $300) - the rest is dead easy to make, and utilises the stock oil pump to keep costs down, and internal vacuum up (no more breather needed!)
You can MAKE one for around $30!! Get one of those in-car fire extinguishers,
# Remove the top valve thing, and fit a bolt into this
# Drill a hole in the bottom, and tap it to accept a pipe connection for the breather pipe
#Drill a hole about 2" away from the breather inlet and fit an air filter to it
JOB DONE!!!
You mount it so that the breather pipe is on the top, the bolt in the original "top" is now the drain-plug.
Dry-sump:
Make an alloy plate to fit over the bottom of the engine, tap a few oil-lines over the main drain points in the housings. Tap the point where the oil pickup is, and feed this into an 8 quart tank. Use a 2-stage scavenge pump on the other lines you've got, and dump this into the 8 quart tank.
And it's probably best to use a big oil-radiator to de-aeirate the oil as well, since the tank won't have all the neccesary bits on it to do that (unless you spend around $200!!)
The most expensive bit will be the pumps (around $300) - the rest is dead easy to make, and utilises the stock oil pump to keep costs down, and internal vacuum up (no more breather needed!)
12-18-03, 07:59 AM
#122
Jaz breather can = $50 +/-
Homebrew fire extinguisher thingie $30.
How much is your time worth?
How would your drain it also? Fit a drain valve? Extra cost? How would you know it is full? Nah IMO the Jaz is still the better choice.
As for the Dry sump, an excellent idea. So why hasn't anyone done this? One quietsion I would have would be where to put the 8 quart tank. I still bet that after all is said and done for such an exercise you're in it for about $800+ plus the cost of your time. Not a bad idea though...not bad at all.
Crispy
Homebrew fire extinguisher thingie $30.
How much is your time worth?
How would your drain it also? Fit a drain valve? Extra cost? How would you know it is full? Nah IMO the Jaz is still the better choice.
As for the Dry sump, an excellent idea. So why hasn't anyone done this? One quietsion I would have would be where to put the 8 quart tank. I still bet that after all is said and done for such an exercise you're in it for about $800+ plus the cost of your time. Not a bad idea though...not bad at all.
Crispy
12-18-03, 11:13 AM
#123
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LOL... want really cheap? Here is what I did when designing the original concept (and it worked so well it was about a year before I switched to the Jaz final version). Drill a 1/4" hole in your oil cap. Push, hammer, whatever... a nylon(ish) 1/8" plastic ell into the hole. Attach a length of silicon tubing onto the ell. Get a 'evian' (insert your favorite water brand) bottle, drill 7-9 1/8" holes in the lid, Then, with an Xacto knife, cut a hole in the upper side of the water bottle just big enough to insert the silicon hose. Push the hose all the way to the bottom of the water bottle. Insert the water bottle into a Koozie (drink insulation device) and put the whole assembly between the master cylinder and the fender where the cruise control is on some models. DONE! and for low, low money. When the bottle gets some oil in it.. drain it through the lid! total cost about $5.00.
BWAhahahahahaaaaa...
BWAhahahahahaaaaa...