SleepR1

I am currently using this cap, which I affectionately call, "Crispy Cap" cuz, Chris has taken the time to help me with it...and I still get oil slosh @ Putnam Park. I'm only good for 15 minute sessions before pitting in and dumping the oil out of the catch bottle. I'm willing to bet Putnam Park has more steady state high G turns than most tracks (which is what makes that track so fast). Granted I'm no Brad Barber (when it comes to track driving the FD3S), but I can hold my own against other instructor-drivers in German makes costing 3 to 4 times what my car cost (including recent mods).

SleepR1

Awh...dang...you mean I have to disassemble the oil filler neck again to re-route the catch can oil drain tube back to the primary turbo vacuum line vent? What a PITA!

SleepR1

PaulyDee's version of the "Barber Catch Can" did not have the new Eppley-Williams-Sonoma cap...Pauly's had a 90-degree plastic fitting pressed through a drilled hole in the stock filler neck cap. The turkey baster cap is a recent update on Crispy's Triple R site...

bradrx7

Pauly's version is exactly what I run, with a plastic ell pushed through a drilled hole. Works fine even if it does get a tiny bit if spray around the ell which cleans off after events during normal clean-up.

Eppley came up with his baster mod to the Jaz system after he experienced slosh on fast CW tracks.

BTW, want long high G turns? Drive Texas World Speedway. All you can eat.

BTW #2 Manny, I was only kidding you about 'technical' tracks and driving fast. When you are sloshing oil out the oil filler, you are driving plenty fast. <G>

SleepR1

Ahh...ok, then I had the original Barber Catch Can setup a couple of years ago

Quote:

Eppley came up with his baster mod to the Jaz system after he experienced slosh on fast CW tracks.

In theory this should outperform your simple "L" fitting. In practice it didn't extend much time on track @ Putnam Park...perhaps 5 minutes at most??

Quote:

BTW, want long high G turns? Drive Texas World Speedway. All you can eat.

Aren't those banked, or are you talking about the road course portion? Driving the banking would be a hoot though

Quote:

BTW #2 Manny, I was only kidding you about 'technical' tracks and driving fast. When you are sloshing oil out the oil filler, you are driving plenty fast. <G>

Oh, I know. Make no mistake--there are faster FD3S track drivers than me. It just annoys me when I have to give up the fight during a hotlapping session with the German-car boyz out @ Putnam Park cuz I have to dump oil out of the catch can and refill the oil pan with fresh oil Maybe I need that Brad Barber or Fabian CYM Track Car special LOL Or maybe I'll retire and leave it up to the real SCCA racers to take care of those pesky German-car owners @ Putnam Park LOL

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

No disassembly required. The drain from the bottom of the catch can to the turbo oil return line. **NOT** the turbo vacuum line tap. The desire is to reroute the oil caught in the can back to the pan....somehow. this makes the issue of overfilling the can go away regardless of how much oil is being caught. Plus with the amount of oil I was catching I was a quart down after ever session. Gets rather expensive to be adding a quart of oil every session...I'd rather feed it back into the pan rather than down the side of my car.

The two options floated were to tap into the filler neck witha a nipple fitting using a small check valve to stop flow *up* the drain line..or simply hose the drain directly to the dipstick tube. Have to run without disptick though whcih woudl make checking oil level a PITA. **OR** run a cacth can drain line over to a turbo oil drain line with a "T" fitting.

'is all I got.
Crispy

OC94Rx7

I ran a track day in Sweden and discovered I am having the same problem with oil in the manifold and elbow pipe.

This thread has been a great help to me, in finding a solution. My question. Why is Brads Jaz -Baster combo not over filling like Manny's and Crispy's? It seems you all are running the same basic system. The only thing I have noticed that is different, would be the length of the baster. Brad cut it at 3.5" and Crispy from 4-6". Can the length have an effect on the amount of oil slosh traveling up the funnel? Or is this not a factor?

I look forward to hear what you decide on Crispy. I think the dipstick sound like a easy one to try first.

//Oliver

SleepR1

IMHO, this might be the best option, or the least PITA, depending on where the turbo oil drain line is??

DamonB

If you have stock or '99 turbos there are two oil returns from the turbos. Basically steel pipes that extend from the bottom of the turbo bearings to the side of the block just above the oil pan. One towards the front, one towards the back. Easily viewed by laying under the car and locating the lines just above the pan. They are steel and about 3/4" in diameter. They have a formed bellows where they curve so as not to crack.

An aftermarket turbo will have an oil return out the bottom as well that will then go to a fitting that is tapped into the stock return in the block. The second unused oil return in the block would be covered and sealed. Typically the supply and return are braided stainless hoses supplied with the kit.

SleepR1

DamonB, are these turbo oil return lines under high oil pressure?

bradrx7

Manny, TWS doesn't use any of the banked turns, just the main straight (which is banked but not a factor. It just has a lot of fast long turns many of which are flat or slightly cambered. I go into turn one over 155 without a lift for example. Hoo-yeh....
OC94Rx7... I think Crispy's 4-6" was a guesstimate. The cut at 3.75" puts the baster tip very near the bottom of the filler. As for why it works on my car and John Eppley's yet not on others... ? Here are some data points: We both run full slicks, we both run very stiff springs (1000/700 for me) on gutted cars and we both run SR Motorsports built single turbo motors. Coincidence?

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

I think not

And yes 4-6" was a guesstimate. Go with 3.5"

Damon,
Yes please can you confirm if the turbo Oil retrun lines are gravity fed "zero" pressure lines or do they see some residual pressure from the turbo oil feed line?
I am merely going on heresay (from Gene and others)

TIA
Crispy

PaulyDee

Logic tells me there will be some residual pressure there. The turbo bearing cases are being force fed oil so the drain off has to be somewhat under pressure.
I seem to remember if the flanges at the engine block are not tightened, they will leak a considerable amount of oil.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

Paul D'Angelo (did I get that right? ),
I would tend to agree...sorta. Just thinking about the design though I would liken it to any other journal(?) bearing. Similar to a crankshaft bearing or eshaft bearing. Oil is forcefed in under high pressure, does it's lubrication job, then merely flows out the other side under little if any "pressure" and gravity flows it's way back to the pan. Just because it's high pressure on one side doesn't necessarily mean prerssure on the other. Kinda like a dam with a pinhole in it...huge pressure on one side and a mere trickle on the other.
As for the leaky oil fitting/connection to the oil pan the oil pan leaks like a seive also if the seal isn't good enough and it's under no pressure either ....but I see your point.
I'd hate to plumb the catch can drain into one of those lines and have the turbo oil line pressure fill up the catch can!
Crispy

gfelber

I must confess. It's heresay from me as well, but from an excellent source. Brain @M2 said he does/did this on his World Challenge cars. These were all single turbo cars.

Gene

SleepR1

Exactly! So perhaps we're back to the dipstick tube for draining the oil catch can line? No pressure there, right? The trouble is, how do you tap into the dip stick tube to plumb an oil drain line from the catch can? Or maybe we should all go with 1000 lb/in springs, gut our cars, and go with Apexi Rx6 single turbos? Bah...I'm retiring anyway...FWIW, I think you'll find a way, to do this right, Crispy

SleepR1

Damn, I'm in awe. The fastest I've seen was 145ish (top gear) going into 1, 5, and Canada Corner @ Road America. The Carousel is a long high-g loaded turn as well leading into the Kink...haven't the ***** to go through the Kink flat-out. I dunno, maybe it's just Putnam Park. Like I posted above, I'm retiring, so it's a moot point for me. I trust Crispy will find a way for the rest of the FD3S track junkies to do the "Barber Bottle" RIGHT!

SleepR1

OC94Rx7,

This is off-topic, but how hard was it to replace those new oil injectors? I'm thinking of installing new ones, as I'll be replacing a couple solenoid/valves on the solenoid rack in the next couple of weekends...

SleepR1

I would think Brian of M2 Performance knows what he's talking about eh? Looks like you've got at least two options, Crispy

DamonB

The turbo oil return lines are under very little pressure. For practical purposes I would say none at all. The oil feed is of course under pressure but there are restrictors in the lines. What comes out of the turbos is essentially gravity fed back to the pan.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

Damon/Gene,
Thanks
Tme to get the machine tools, aka bench vise, hand drill, and file, warmed up!
Crispy

TYSON

I'm going to be doing this while the engine is apart, so I think I will drill and tap the intermediate plate just below the oil filler neck. Should make for a very sturdy fitting and short lines.

At first I thought about attaching to the bottom of the oil filler neck, but with it being plastic I didn't want the fitting to break out of the neck and cause a big problem.

Dipstick tube sounds like a good second choice to me, just a little bit more difficult to do than a standard drill and tap. (ie: drill and braze)

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

Tyson,
Keep in mind tha oil slosh up that side of the motor is the reason oil ends up in the filler neck and out to the catch can. As noted earlier some kind of check valve in that drain line if you do decide to tap the filler neck base somewhere might be adviseable.
Crispy

TYSON

I don't know about it being absolutely required. I would have to completely fill my catch can on one corner to cause a problem, I think. Also, any oil coming up that line to the tank would have to overcome say 6" of 'head' in a 1/4" line plus any 'head' created by the depth of oil in the catch can. With your current setup, it is travelling up the very large filler neck and then down the small hose, a much easier path for a viscous fluid like oil.

I think as long as your can is big enough to take 1 or 2 corners worth of oil, it will drain back out before it overflows, as on every straight and on right hand corners it will be draining.

OC94Rx7

Brad - My car is setup closer to Manny's and Crispy. Thanks for the information.

Manny - check your PM