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street legal race harnes?

Old 12-18-02, 12:11 PM
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street legal race harnes?

is there a street legal 4 point race harnes?


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Old 12-18-02, 01:41 PM
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The Schroth is street legal.

I think the best is just to install a harness with clip in ends. That way you can easily remove them and the eyehooks they mount to are the same thread as the stock bolts that hold the lap belts in, so you can retain your stock seatbelt for street use and clip the shoulder harnesses in when you need them.
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Old 12-18-02, 02:21 PM
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thanks
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Old 12-19-02, 01:19 PM
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The Schroth comes with something saying DOT approved (mine did, but this was two years ago), but IME not everyone will be aware of this, so throw that paper in your glove box.
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Old 12-19-02, 04:18 PM
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why would a harness not be street legal?
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Old 12-19-02, 05:34 PM
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A street legal race harness?

It depends on what you consider to be a "race" harness. As pointed out the Schroth harness is DOT and although has more straps than a OEM shoulder harness I would not consider this to be a "race" harness. The schroth harness would not pass a true race inspection at a SCCA Solo I or Club Racing Event. And I would guess it would not pass a NHRA, IDRA inspection where 4+ pt. harnesses are required.

For agressive street driving or Solo II the Schroth would probalby be the best.



why would a harness not be street legal?
To my knowledge all the true racing harnesses (Simpson, G-force, OMP, etc.) have not gone through the trouble and expense of having the US Government test the belts to see if they meet US DOT regulations. And to be honest most true raicng belts would fail the DOT standars because of the half life of nylon when exposed to the natural elements. I have seen one study that claimed that most nylon belts (what 99% of racing belts are made of) loose 1/2 of their webbing strength in 24 months. All of today's auto manufacturers use polyester belts that are designed to essentially last forever when exposed to sun, moisture, heat and cold. Nylon is more desireable in a race car because it can strech more.
And because of the half life issue the SCCA is proposing a rule change in the GCR to mandate that harnesses are no more than 2 years old (they will expire the 12th month of the 2nd year after production). The current rule mandates they be no older than 5 years.
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Old 12-19-02, 11:50 PM
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Dont' forget, a DOT cert doesn't necessarily mean squat. For brake lines to be DOT certified, the fittings have to be permanently (read: crimped) attached. Brake lines using 2-piece aeroquip fittings are superior, but do not pass DOT spec because they are not permanently attached.

In my car I have eyebolts in the stock seatbelt bolt holes, with my 5-points clipped on, but retaining the stock belt. (for the passenger anyway, there wasn't really room for both on the driver's side because of the way the racing seat fits, so the driver must use the lap portion of the 5-pt and the stock shoulder belt (1990 T2 with stupid automatic shoulder belt)
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Old 12-20-02, 05:26 AM
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4pt=not safe!!!
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Old 12-21-02, 08:47 AM
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This tread has been discussed many times before....I still can figure out why you would want a harness (esp a 4 point) for the street.
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Old 12-21-02, 03:25 PM
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autox & i live very close to big curvey mountans

stock lets me slide to much
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Old 03-04-08, 03:20 PM
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I am looking for a street legal version to avoid an excuse to be pulled over, harassed and cited multiple times.

I want to eventually do NASA and Solo I since i've paid the membership dues every year. Maybe in another 10 years my car will run long enough to make it to a track.

ok, seriously though is there a harness that will pass tech inspection and is DOT aproved? If not what is the least point that will pass tech so it's not such a pain for daily driving?
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Old 03-04-08, 07:49 PM
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I hate to be the search ****, but this has been covered before.

DOT rated belts are designed to stretch and give-way to allow the body more distance to decelerate in a crash. Commonly they have sections where the webbing has been folded over and stitched back on itself - these stitches will tear out and gently elongate the belt during a crash (the reason DOT belts need to be replaced after any major accident). For accidents happening at common road speeds this is A Good Thing, as it tries to minimize all injuries.

Race harnesses are designed for incidences at higher speeds. They try and minimize the amount of belt stretch because at higher speeds on the track it is much more important to keep the driver positioned in the race seat and within the confines of the cage. With this design there will be more shock to the body, potentially resulting in more minor injuries (broken bones, etc) but better protection against major (crushing) damage.

-bill
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Old 03-04-08, 09:06 PM
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I don't think there's any 5 point that's DOT'd. I wouldn't use a 4 point, even if it's the Scroth ASM. When you crash your torso wants to move forward, this pulls on the shoulder harnesses, which pull up on the middle of the lap belt, potentially pulling it up into your gut and causing soft tissue damage which could kill you, but will at a minimum make it much worse for you. On a 5+ point harness the sub belt(s) help prevent this from happening, and on a 3 point the shoulder strap tensions the lap belt.

If you want to be held in better you can get the stock belts to lock in place with a quick jerk, then buckle up. It'll take a few tries, but you can get held in very well like that. You can also try a CG lock, or just wear the stock belt over the 5 point harness and you'll be legal.
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Old 03-04-08, 10:03 PM
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GoRacer,

Just because you put a 5/6 pt harness in your car, doesn't mean you remove your stock belts. Just use your standard seat beats on the street, and then your harness on the track.
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Old 03-04-08, 10:19 PM
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Yeah I was looking at removing them using something like a quick release 4pt. I just got my Bride Lo Max seat and it's a very tight fit.
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Old 03-04-08, 10:30 PM
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I would suggest keeping the stock seat belts. In CA, you don't need anything else to help grab unwanted attention.
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Old 03-05-08, 12:59 AM
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Also keep in mind that doing anything that requires you to move your shoulders will be difficult or impossible with harnesses on snugly (maybe reaching for the radio, shoulder checking, etc). It'll likely also be annoying to have the belts constantly tight against you when driving normally, so you're likely to run them loose, which could be very dangerous.

Basically what I'm saying is that you should definetely keep the 3 points for street use, not just for the attention that harnesses might get you, but for comfort and conveniance.
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Old 03-05-08, 09:00 AM
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Agreed with keeping the stock belts in addition. As stated above, with a proper harness your torso will be fixed in place and you will not be able to check your blind spots over your shoulder properly or when driving on the street. Nor will you able to lean to reach things in the car without having the harnesses slack -- and at that point they become useless in a collision. Also, they're a huge PITA to put on every time you get in the car and downright uncomfortable to boot.
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Old 03-15-08, 01:41 PM
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Exclamation Stop and think

One thing you need to think about is in the event of a roll over without a roll cage, using a 4-5-6 pt harness it keeps your body completely up right and held in position. This is not a good thing without a roll cage, as the roof folds in you need to be able to duck. Even if you don't duck, your body can move if the roof hits your head which will help keep you from compressing your spine, or head injuries.

I have been in several roll overs, with 3-4-5-6 pt harness, with and without a cage, and I will not drive a car with anything more then a 3 pt harness, without a cage.

And of course, if you have a cage, definatly opt for 4-5-6 pt harness.

Please take my advise, you could be risking your life unnessessarily.
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Old 03-15-08, 03:01 PM
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A cage on a street car isn't really a good idea (head contact mostly), but I agree with what you said if roll bar gets substituted for roll cage in the end reccomendation.
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Old 03-15-08, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by riffraff View Post
why would a harness not be street legal?
DOT regs. If it's not DOT compliant then you're not wearing a seatbelt.

I get around this if I feel like wearing the 5-point by wearing the factory 3-point *over* the 5 point. The only problem is, wearing the 5 point is a bad idea because then I can't check my side mirrors let alone turn my head to see the blind spots. Then there are the relatively minor problems of not being able to reach the ignition key, radio, or HVAC. All bad ideas on the street.

Harnesses are also kind of a bad idea because in case of an accident, a first-responder is expecting either no belt, or a 2 point or 3 point belt. At most they have to cut one belt. Now picture a 5 point harness. They cut one belt... you're still in. Cut one more... you're still in. Cut a third... *you're still in*. They can't be expected to know how your camlock or latch-link setup works or even that it's in the center of your body and not the middle of the car.

There was a fairly recent rally accident where the co-driver was stuck in his seat for about 45 minutes, slowly bleeding... they couldn't get to his sub strap to cut it free and the seat was basically wrapped around him from the tree impact (impacts are always on the co-driver's side). And that was for people who were expecting that kind of belt.

I think that is why there are no sub strap equipped DOT legal harnesses. I personally wouldn't run a harness without a sub strap, approved by anybody or not.
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Old 03-16-08, 09:34 PM
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A proper seat is what you need to hold yourself in place. Race belts are to secure you to that seat, and prevent you from getting injured by being thrown into hard items inside the car, like the cage. Race safety is a system - a proper, protective seat, and you secured to it by functioning race harnesses. Neither of these things are all that pleasant for everyday driving.

Get a better bolstered seat and use good functioning stock DOT seatbelts for autocrossing with the possible addition of something like a CG lock to keep them snug.

As for the idea of needing ANY of that for public driving at your local mountain roads - if you are driving hard enough to have trouble staying in your seat on public roads, you need to rethink your priorities. Thinking you are Parnelli Jones when pitting yourself against such worthy opponents as mailboxes, ditches, and the average bluehair weaving their way out for a Sunday drive is lots of fun until somebody gets maimed or killed. It's tough enough to keep out of accidents at legal speeds just dodging the untalented and the brain dead. Do yourself a favor and keep it in your pants on the public roads, and get out there and work in a controlled setting whenever you can.

Good Luck.

(And for the guy who get "harassed" by law enforcement: If you think you are getting pulled over for your choice of belts, my guess is you are in denial about the image you are projecting. I know a bunch of extremely talented drivers with tons of successful race experience and they all drive low profile cars. If your image screams "outlaw" you get the wrong kind of attention from the boys in blue. A fully riced modded, stickered, and bullwinkle winged experession of your individuality is not only somwhat of a middle finger salute to them, it is also an example of the type of car they see involved in a disporportional number of infractions and accidents. I'm have no idea how you drive, and I'm not even saying it is completely fair that they are forced to stereotype certain kinds of cars and drivers, but when your image dares them to pull you over, they usually are willing to comply.)

Last edited by Boswoj; 03-16-08 at 09:47 PM.
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