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Solo ASP class question

Old 10-01-06, 08:43 PM
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Dan Cernese
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Solo ASP class question

15.1.D. Alternate computer control modules may be used whenever an
equivalent change to the conventional system is allowed. For
example, alternate computer module control of ignition settings
or fuel injection is allowed.

15.10.C.1. Carburetors, fuel injection, and intake manifolds are unrestricted.

15.10.C.4.f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical,
and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be
altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost
pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are
permitted.


So, the ECU is covered by both the fuel injection and boost regulation system (can be replaced with programmable fuel map, etc.).

Would changing the MAP sensor be legit? This is a weak link, since reaching it's accuracy limit is too easy. Seems like it would be legal to me, but I want to make sure because I've already experienced 14-15psi boost and fuel-cut as a result!

Not that I intend to exceed 15psi, but I'm uncomfortable running close to it knowing the stock MAP sensor is no longer accurate in that range.

Last edited by dhcernese; 10-01-06 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 10-02-06, 12:32 PM
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Yes. Running an afermarket ECU with it's own MAP sensor (e.g. GM 2 or 3 bar) is legal.

-Andy
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Old 10-03-06, 06:02 PM
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thanks. i found the same answer in sccaforums.com

I need to scan the rules, does anyone know if aftermarket blowoff values/control is legal in SP? I wouldn't think so, but it might seem consistent with the intent.
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Old 10-23-06, 09:30 PM
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In general, any control system/ configuration is allowed (even going non-sequential) but no hardware change - this includes turbos, wastegates, blowoff valves. The intent is that you are allowed to get higher boost but only as a result of changes in the control system, not from change in the hardware.

Dan, from the picture it looks you are in need for a bigger front swaybar...

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Old 10-24-06, 09:36 AM
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Thanks, I get the general philosophy, but I think there's some legit room in there for something interesting. Esp. with the recent clarification on what is a BOV verses a compressor bypass valve. Niave question: does the 3rdgen have a BOV or CBV? It makes a big difference in the rules.

On the bar, it's the R2 bar during a high-speed crossover, I could probaby use a better one though, IIRC the rear shock rebound might have been full soft that day, I don't know.
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Old 10-24-06, 12:10 PM
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Sorry I cannot be of much help on that. Need to rapidly increase my knowledge base on this and many other issues. That's why I am more actively following the forum now. I had no much need before as I have been running in Stock class.

Although I am for sure more naive than you are and therefore high chances are that I may be wrong, based on my still limited understanding on how things work, there are no standalone BOV or CBV in our car - but I guess the wastegate actuator/ solenoid could be considered a BOV functionally.

Anyhow, please keep me posted on your findings because I am VERY interested...

On the front sway bar, ditch the stock one and give it a try the ST or the RB (easier to mount) 1.25" dia. I am sure you will liket it Make sure you upgrade the bar mounts first though or you may rip everything off especially if you use R-compund tires.
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Old 10-24-06, 12:34 PM
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wastegate isn't considered a BOV (i thought)

I'm in a similar boat as you, just a few months ahead. We have an "air bypass valve", sometimes referred to as a BOV, but I don't have to car to actually look at it and decide if it meets the rules definition of CBV because then all sorts of possibilities open up that nobody has realized yet. ..and I shouldn't tell you until I whip your *** in ASP at least a few times, but hey, I don't know what I'm doing anyway :-)
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Old 10-24-06, 01:36 PM
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As long as you keep that stock sway-bar I won't be afraid of that...

"air bypass valve" - isn't that to bypass the catalytic converter and choke the O2 supply if the cat gets too hot?

BOW and CBV relief pressurized air on load rejection (throttle lift-off). BOV to the athmosphere, CBV back to the compressor suction.

What's the new ruling BOV vs. CBV you are referring to?
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Old 10-25-06, 11:02 AM
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just clarification on CBV

Originally Posted by Sandro
What's the new ruling BOV vs. CBV you are referring to?
Just a clarification in July 2006 Fasttrack about what a CBV was and a definition of BOV/POV.

So theres "No changes are allowed to waste gate(s)"
and "No changes are permitted to blow-off/pop-off valves."
and the clarification "Compressor bypass valves (CBVs) may be updated/backdated independently of the other components of a forced induction system."

ending with the now obvious open boost: "Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are permitted."

It just means you have to understand how your valves work, not what it's called or sold as. The last below sentence is critical.

From Fasttrack:

"The following definition items, as proposed by the **** for 1/1/2007 addition to Section 12, are being published for member comment:

“Blow-Off Valve (BOV) / Pop-Off Valve (POV): A device intended to limit maximum boost pressure in the engine inlet system by opening to vent the inlet system to the outside atmosphere when a preset boost value is reached."

“Compressor Bypass Valve (CBV): A device intended to allow a supercharger or turbocharger's compressor output to recirculate back to the supercharger or turbocharger inlet when the throttle plate is closed. The purpose of this recirculation is to reduce boost lag when the throttle plate is reopened. A CBV is referenced to intake manifold vacuum and opens when manifold vacuum exceeds a preset value. It is closed under boost. CBVs installed by OEMs operate as described above. Some aftermarket CBVs vent to the atmosphere, and are marketed as Blow Off Valves or Pop Off Valves, although their operation is otherwise identical to the OEM CBVs."

Last edited by dhcernese; 10-25-06 at 11:11 AM. Reason: add fasttrack quote
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Old 10-25-06, 12:36 PM
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Here is a good discussion we had about ASP last year:

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...0&page=1&pp=15
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Old 10-25-06, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by finky
Here is a good discussion we had about ASP last year:

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...0&page=1&pp=15

Thank you for the reference. Very good information in there.

An added note I didn't find discussed in the thread - you may have known this already. It is also legal to run non-sequential.

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Old 10-26-06, 04:16 PM
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I am 99% sure it is illegal. AMRX7 may chime in and say for sure. My rulebook is at home.
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Old 10-26-06, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by finky
I am 99% sure it is illegal. AMRX7 may chime in and say for sure. My rulebook is at home.
It is legal, according to Doug Gill. Please see email copied below, item 1.

Take care,

Sandro

From: Doug Gill [mailto[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 11:21 AM
To: Sandro LaRosa
Subject: RE: SP and boost control

Sorry I did give you a clear answer to you questions.

"1. Could you please confirm that I can change the turbos control system
and make them work in parallel rather than sequentially?"

The last paragraph of the new rule changes says, "Boost regulation
systems... may be modified or replaced..." If the turbos are working in
parallel, the system has been modified which is allowed by the rule.

"2. Can you please confirm that I am allowed to control the boost to
whatever upper limit I can get from the [stock] turbos?

The same last paragraph ends by stating, "Boost pressure changes
resulting from authorized changes are permitted." If you are using the
standard turbos, wastegate(s), bov/pov, etc, there is no limit to boost
pressure in and of itself as long as the other portions of the rule is
met.

If you'd like an official clarification, I'll need to send your letter
to the SEB. They're the ones that make the official clarifications. But
as the rule reads, I see no concerns with parallel turbo operation or
limits on increased boost pressures.

The concern I have with getting an official clarification is if you ask
first, the SEB may say, "No!" right away. If you go ahead and make your
changes based on the literal words of the rule, it may just be accepted
as OK and never questioned. Worst case, of course, is a protest and DSQ,
but that really seems to be a stretch to me.

But I'm not calling the shots and I won't be in your position. I do
think parallel turbos are compliant with the new rule.

- Doug

Doug Gill
SCCA Solo Technical Manager
P O Box 19400
Topeka, KS 66619-0400
1-800-770-2055

SCCA National Solo Rules -
http://www.scca.com/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=019BFD-111E000&x=050|070&~=
FasTrack - http://www.scca.com/Garage/
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Old 10-26-06, 04:59 PM
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Well I guess I'm going to SM2 now, I will have an aftermarket BOV setup on mine when I'm done. Damn.
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Old 10-26-06, 06:31 PM
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Sandro, I would not hurry into non-sequential turbo mod without some more clarification. I would try asking on SCCAforums.com also. I have never gone n/s but in my understanding there is the "poorman's n/s" and the "permanent/right way" to do it.
In the "poorman's" version you keep the flapper door open so there is no transition.
In the "right way" you remove the flapper door altogether or grind on the turbo manifold and do some porting.
If you get to far into it you may change more than the rules allow.

Again, I have nver done the mod so search the 3rd gen section. I know there are many threads on it. I am just afraid that some of the mods will put you in SM2.

Jeff
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Old 10-26-06, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by finky
Sandro, I would not hurry into non-sequential turbo mod without some more clarification. I would try asking on SCCAforums.com also. I have never gone n/s but in my understanding there is the "poorman's n/s" and the "permanent/right way" to do it.
In the "poorman's" version you keep the flapper door open so there is no transition.
In the "right way" you remove the flapper door altogether or grind on the turbo manifold and do some porting.
If you get to far into it you may change more than the rules allow.

Again, I have nver done the mod so search the 3rd gen section. I know there are many threads on it. I am just afraid that some of the mods will put you in SM2.

Jeff
Thank you for the wise advice Jeff. I will certainly be doing more research on this. You may have noticed my corresondence with Doug was making reference to the control system only.

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Old 11-01-06, 12:02 AM
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I am pretty sure that a n/s mod is not SP legal since it requires modification to the turbo component.

If there was a way to make it act like it was n/s without touching it, that MIGHT be legal.
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Old 11-01-06, 07:33 AM
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You can still rewire the solenoids and make the turbos work non-sequential. This is legal. Although not ideal, this would avoid transition issues.
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