Hi-
Anyone have any experience with racing beats race apex seals. I see thy are pretty reasonable for price and am wondering if anyone has any opinions about them. My particular application is in an ITS can with slightly used rotor hourings. Thanks for all the help.

 

Are those the carbon ones or steel?
I ran the carbon ones in an engine for a bit. I dialed in too much advance and they basically powdered and shot out the exhast. No damage to the housings, but the motor had to come apart.

-Trent

 

They are the carbon ones. I think they are aluminum filled...thats where my questions comes from. Do you know about what you used for timing, I run 20 degrees currently. Would you recomend these? Any race experience with anything else????

 

I use the RB carbon seals in my PP 13B road race engine, we opened up the apex seal grooves from 2mm to 3mm to use the carbon seals. I just can't afford the ceramic apex seals. My current engine with RB seals has about 10 hours on it. My previous 12A PP engine had 26 hours on it, and was still running well when I removed it to step up to the 13B PP.

 

Great help thank you!!! Anyone else with any info- much apperciated!!!

 

I use carbon seals as well in a race ported 12a. No issues. I got mine from Mazda. I need to build a new engine and would like to step up to ceramics as well. Just as speedturn said it's too much $$$$.

 

Head over to improvedtouring.com There is a good writeup on them over there. Basically it boils down to the fact that to get the most out of an engine that's revved to the level you need to with an IT engine or higher you'll need a seal that's lighter than any of ferrous metal seals. A good IT engine should live between 6500 and 8500-9000rpm. I ran carbon seals for three years in my car and never had an issue with them. We ran 27* total advance on 87 octane without issue. If you're running 20* you're leaving power on the table. Carbon seals will work better at high rpm and will be easier on rotor housings than ferrous seals. They are not as tolerant to detonation as ceramics but that's of little consequence in an IT engine as long as you adequately control coolant temps. Other than that there isn't much of a downfall for this application relative to ceramics.

The clearnaces are different for carbon seals versus ferrous seals. Make sure you are aware of that before you assemble the engine.

 

Could you elaborate on the tolerance issue. I am heading to check out the site mentioned above, if its listed there nevermind. Again, thanks for the help!!

You run 27*??!! I was worried about 20*, but im new to racing a rotary. My timing mark only goes to 20 on the racing beat pulley.

 

oh sorry, forgot, how well do these do in mating to used housings? THanks again, much appericated!!

 

Ensure you have adequate fuel if you plan on running high advance numbers. Running the stock carb (class requirement) I was around 13.8:1 up high. I had about 26 degrees advance when my seals popped. If you can be right at 13:1 you can run some higher numbers, but for 12A's I usually stuck with Racing Beat's reccomended 24 degrees.

-Trent

 

Ahh, thanks. This is an S5 with the full stock injection set up. Any info related to that?

 

Just ask Racing Beat for their clearance specs when you order the seals. It's also listed in the tech tips section of the Mazdaspeed website. They like a little more clearnace in the seal groove and end clearance to the side housings than ferrous seals. You don't want to set them up tight.

With the S5 stock fuel injection you will probably be very rich through the upper end of the rev range where you're looking to run the engine. There are expensive ECU options out right now. Depending on how the new ECU rule shakes out after the first of the year I will have a couple much more affordable options to offer. You can get the fuel pretty close with pressure adjustments but you end up with a fuel pressure that is low enough to effect proper atomization. A proper curve in the ECU makes a noticeable difference. If you want to see what we have to offer hit up the website below and drop me an email.

I have not used these seals with used housings. If you are after a long lived engine that makes the most power possible you'll want to ante up for new housings anyway. You are signed up with Mazdaspeed to take advantage of that discount right?