Refreshing the springs
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Refreshing the springs
How many of you stock class autocrossers have replaced your springs with a new set of OEM springs? Did you see benefits on course?
I am in the position to put a little money into my FC to freshen it up for autocrossing and to provide a few more years of faithful service.. was looking to put Konis in, but had an eye on redoing the old springs as well-- if it would pay dividends in handling and times.
I'm thinking about bushings too, but that would be another thread..
I am in the position to put a little money into my FC to freshen it up for autocrossing and to provide a few more years of faithful service.. was looking to put Konis in, but had an eye on redoing the old springs as well-- if it would pay dividends in handling and times.
I'm thinking about bushings too, but that would be another thread..
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Should the SCCA ever come to its senses and bump the FD3S down into A-stock, refreshing the stock springs would definitely be on the top of my things-to-do list. Gee, return my car to stock .... that would only take me about a year.
#7
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Springs don't lose rate over time. They will sag but if you start with a 400lb/in spring it will still take 400lbs to compress it 1". I've heard/read it's common among Showroom Stock racers to use "old" springs to lower their cars.
As long as one spring has not sagged a disproportionate amount compared to the others, altering corner weights, there should be no reason to replace them in an attempt to gain a stiffer spring.
Chris
As long as one spring has not sagged a disproportionate amount compared to the others, altering corner weights, there should be no reason to replace them in an attempt to gain a stiffer spring.
Chris
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Hmm.. actually, according to a coworker who does creep tests in rubber and metal machinery mounts, the stiffness does change as the metal experiences creep.. he couldn't quantify the stiffness change, hence my asking around here.
If the showroom stock crowd find it advantageous, though, maybe the answer is that the stiffness loss is not a big deal, or that the suspension geometry change is more favorable than the stiffness change for their application..
Hmm.. think SCCAForums would be a good place to pick the brains of the Showroom Stock crowd further?
If the showroom stock crowd find it advantageous, though, maybe the answer is that the stiffness loss is not a big deal, or that the suspension geometry change is more favorable than the stiffness change for their application..
Hmm.. think SCCAForums would be a good place to pick the brains of the Showroom Stock crowd further?
#10
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Hmm. Over time does the Modulus of Elasticity change? I don't think it does. The wire diameter of the spring doesn't change, MOE doesn't change, what makes the spring rate change over time? Nothing as far as I can see.
Ask yourself this question. If you had some plain old mild steel and some really trick alloy steel, both some standard sample size, would they deflect the same amount before yielding? Answer is almost all steels have the same MOE, ~28-30ksi. That means before the samples bend permanantly they both bend the same amount. The real difference is the alloy steel will bend farther before it bends permanently.
Otherwise don't waste your $$ on stock springs, go for Eibachs or something. Stock class in a FC is really a bummer. The FC can really benefit from a little negative camber up front. It makes it so much more fun to drive/auto-x.
The FD is awesome in stock form but Damon, switch to SM2, ASP or something. In competitive regions the FD won't cut the mustard in SS.
Ask yourself this question. If you had some plain old mild steel and some really trick alloy steel, both some standard sample size, would they deflect the same amount before yielding? Answer is almost all steels have the same MOE, ~28-30ksi. That means before the samples bend permanantly they both bend the same amount. The real difference is the alloy steel will bend farther before it bends permanently.
Otherwise don't waste your $$ on stock springs, go for Eibachs or something. Stock class in a FC is really a bummer. The FC can really benefit from a little negative camber up front. It makes it so much more fun to drive/auto-x.
The FD is awesome in stock form but Damon, switch to SM2, ASP or something. In competitive regions the FD won't cut the mustard in SS.
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Originally posted by turbojeff
The FD is awesome in stock form but Damon, switch to SM2, ASP or something. In competitive regions the FD won't cut the mustard in SS.
The FD is awesome in stock form but Damon, switch to SM2, ASP or something. In competitive regions the FD won't cut the mustard in SS.
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Originally posted by turbojeff
Hmm. Over time does the Modulus of Elasticity change? I don't think it does. The wire diameter of the spring doesn't change, MOE doesn't change, what makes the spring rate change over time? Nothing as far as I can see.
Hmm. Over time does the Modulus of Elasticity change? I don't think it does. The wire diameter of the spring doesn't change, MOE doesn't change, what makes the spring rate change over time? Nothing as far as I can see.
Further, another contribution to the spring's stiffness is the tightness of its coils.. refer to this image:
http://students.bath.ac.uk/en8cc/progress.gif
Side by side is a linear and a progressive spring. It illustrates that for a progressive rate spring, you can change the spring rate just by changing how many loops per inch you have.
Hypothesis-- a sagged spring will have more loops per inch and thus be softer?
For further support, I present: http://www.mech.uwa.edu.au/DANotes/s...tro/intro.html specifically the developed equation t = K 8FC /pd^2 where p is the pitch distance between coils. A lower p (same as more coils per inch) increases the torsional stress for a given load--> lower spring rate..
On the other side of it... talking to the aforementioned coworker further, he's familiar with springs that can maintain a fairly constant rate over a decent range of deflection.. but these are typically smaller springs than automotive applications, and generally designed to become coil-bound before getting near plastic deformation.
I don't know the details and specifics of automobile applications, and since data always trumps theory, I was using this thread to look for data.. Of course, if I ever get off my lazy duff and track down some showroom stock guys, maybe I can have my data.. :p
thanks all!
#14
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Originally posted by MechE00
Hypothesis-- a sagged spring will have more loops per inch and thus be softer?
Hypothesis-- a sagged spring will have more loops per inch and thus be softer?
I like turbojeff's explanation of materials but it does not take into account fatique. Obviously springs do sag after a time and must deform in order to do so; I reckon this is due to fatique.
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