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question for you track dogs power steering or not

Old 10-22-07, 07:14 PM
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question for you track dogs power steering or not

i started tracking my rx7.....still having issues with the tuning and ignition breakup during on off accleration. that's a whole another nightmare. gets dicey during mid corners when that bitch kicks on/off. do you guys run power steering. i usually go to shannandoh at summitt point and that track is very technical with lots of turns. what do you recommend? thanks kvn
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Old 10-22-07, 07:46 PM
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i have found that if i have to concentrate on getting the wheel PHYSICALLY turned i'm not as fast, as if i can just focus on car placement.

so i would run ps, easier to drive = faster
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Old 10-22-07, 07:53 PM
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This question is about as split as synthetic verses dino oil and sequential verse non-seq turbos.

Here's a similar thread from not too long ago:

https://www.rx7club.com/race-car-tech-103/poll-fd-power-steering-100%25-track-car-653944/

I'm in favor of keeping it. However, its all personal preference.
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Old 10-22-07, 07:55 PM
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I really love the feel of the manual rack in my FC - it really communicates what the front tires are doing.
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Old 10-22-07, 08:36 PM
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sometimes i feel like i have to muscle the steering wheel for that bitch to turn. it doesn't help that i have been tracking my car with my blitz type o3 ( 18 ") . they weight about 25 lbs each w/o tires. do you think i will be able to steer much quicker and easier if i drop down to 17" light weight wheels like the rpf1s. it just gets to be too much @ summitt point with a lot of turns. i can't keep up with the stock s2000s with my 400hp fd. i need more seat time and improve my self as a driver. kvn
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Old 10-22-07, 08:50 PM
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theres no way i could do an autoX without PS.
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Old 10-22-07, 09:02 PM
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this is for road courses..... i auto x with my civic si kvn
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Old 10-22-07, 09:07 PM
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On a race track you rarely have to turn the wheels more than 20 degrees either way. No power for me unless its an endurance race or the front tires are over a foot wide. Suspension geometry has a big affect, mac struts can't get too wacky with camber gain when you turn the wheel so you really don't need it.
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Old 10-23-07, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jgrewe View Post
mac struts can't get too wacky with camber gain when you turn the wheel so you really don't need it.
He's running a FD, so there are no struts.
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Old 10-23-07, 09:09 AM
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no

I really don't know about autocrossing with NO ps, but I love my car without it. Its not hard to turn at ALL, once rolling. From a dead stop its kind of hard, but you'll never be stopped in autocrossing. Again as long as you're rolling its really not hard. My 2 sense.
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Old 10-23-07, 11:46 AM
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Power steering = weight and a potential point of failure. It's also another thing taking up space in the engine bay. There is also the slight power loss with driving the pump. In my experience the simplest setup you can run is the best, as you first have to finish to win. Secondly, the car shouldn't be hard to turn once it is over about 10 mph, if it is there is likely a problem with your alignment. If you have too much caster steering effort goes up, but it is hard to get too much caster in most cars. The other issue could be incorrect offset wheels. If the center of your wheel is too far out the steering effort can be increased as you have to orbit the contact patch around the pivot axis described by the ball joints.
In short, light car, light wheels and the center of the tire contact patch in line with the kingpin angle and you should be fine.

-Trent
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Old 10-23-07, 12:24 PM
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I've run both ways and like the non-ps best but use a properly converted rack (Mavel or Marvel). The feedback is better of course, you can feel the first hint of understeer. The only time I have trouble is on turn 5 at road Atlanta when I'm turning left under braking while downshifting on a bumpy area of the track. It would be easier to have two hands on the wheel there. I run with a smaller Sparco wheel as well.
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Old 10-23-07, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
He's running a FD, so there are no struts.
oops, maybe I should start to read sigs a little closer
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Old 10-23-07, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jgrewe View Post
oops, maybe I should start to read sigs a little closer
lol, that's not a problem. I meant to put a smiley on the end of that as it was more for teasing than anything else.
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Old 10-23-07, 06:24 PM
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I tried running my FD without P/S.

Didn't like it. One trip up a twisty mountain road convinced me. It was drivable, but too much steering effort was required.

This was without race tires, on stock wheels.

Race tires with +38 offset would have been even harder.

Sure you can remove the P/S, but you may not like it.

I read every response of every thread in the 3rd gen section before removing my P/S.

20 miles later it was back on.

Lot's of folks talk about the road feel. That is probably a good thing.

You may also want to think about how quick you will be when trying to countersteer a slide.
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Old 10-23-07, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jkstill View Post
You may also want to think about how quick you will be when trying to countersteer a slide.
Ah, yes, but with the right amount of caster, the steering wheel will turn for you during a slide, not stay stationary, effectively countersteering without much effort.
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Old 10-23-07, 07:15 PM
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One thing you need to consider is how the de-powering was done, that'll have a significant impact on the driving experience. If you do the full conversion where you remove the piston and weld the pinion shaft then it'll have better feel and require less effort than if you just looped the lines.

I've got a properly done 15:1 rack (previously had a 17.4:1) and I like it, I've done 8+ hour drives over mountain roads, 3 days straight at the track and several autocrosses. This is all with 225's (R's at the track) with 10mm less offset than stock. I've never regretted taking it off, and I daily drive my car.
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Old 10-23-07, 08:41 PM
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it just seems like i have to put more effort than my civic si. it might be the 18x9 anchor wheels from blitz. the are 25lbs a piece. maybe this is what i am feeling. i do love it on the straights and long sweepers though. kvn
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Old 10-23-07, 09:20 PM
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Having raced FDs with and without power steering and owning two FDs (one with and one without PS) my opinion is that you're better off just keeping your power steering.
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Old 10-23-07, 09:25 PM
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i eliminated mine. its fine on the street but im putting mine back in too. its been out for like 2 years but i really am putting it in when i start driving it more

i worry about going out to some drift days i dont even want to try countersteering without power assist. i wasnt planning to use this car for such, but i sold my second gen over a year ago.

im going to read up more again on the manual conversions, from my fsm dropping the steering rack to send out seems easier than finding all of my p/s parts scattered around the garage and figuring out how it all goes together again.


in short, my opinion would be, leave it in!
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Old 10-25-07, 02:15 PM
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I run without. More effort but I don't like the variable steering boost that the 2nd gens had.

PaulC
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