BUMBLEBEE7

iTrader: (1)

Give this guy a call if you want result Carlos Gonzales 352-237-7955 G n S Racing he is in Ocala FL or you can try KILO RACING in Ocala FL also. Ken Scheepers can also help he is making 300 plus with 13PP FI check out his web site. Good luck with your project
KEEP IT SPINING.

rotaryengineering

I have been tuning Mazda Rotary Engines for a while and Rotaries love F-2, F-3 and F-4 Emulsion tubes. These tubes are the richest available from Weber and they work great on Big Bridge port motors, P-Port engines and Turbo Carb setups. I would start with the F-4 and start tuning with your same jet combination. Every setup is different but, you can make some really good horsepower by just changing to these richer tubes. If you have any other questions send me a PM and I will be glad to answer any questions.

diyman25

Well. bring this thread from dead.... But got some good news to share with every one.

Since I got tired of my Stubid Tranmission( keeping grinding on every gear, and this is my sec set of Used turbo MT). and change Transmission with out lift is not fun. so I decide to pull the engine out togeter with MT. and when I was doing that . I rember the Owner of Mazdatrix told me. HE said Jay Stoping wasting your time at Chassic dyno. bring the engine to me I will use Engine dyno to tune it for you... but Back then I was kind da lazy, and not as disapoint that much...

But any way. I sent my engine to them Last week... and Got some good update !!

First. when Dave doing the Base line.. (which is my tune, using my jet Chock... and etc). It pull over 300HP already.

I was like DAM this is AMAZING !!! 313 Engine HP AT 8000RPM and the Peak TQ is 203 at 8000RPM...

The another shock news is on the dyno jet , I made 230WHP at 8000RPM too. that mean my drive train eat 83HP !!! that is more then 30% of loose..

Well but one thing still bother me now. because my FC is still runing rich and lean condion at Top END
here is the chate

RPM TQ HP BSFC(LB/HP-HR) EGT1 EGT2
7100 139 188 1.04 1488 1490
7500 139 232 0.86 1489 1496
7699 173 253 0.74 1489 1496
7900 191 288 0.58 1489 1497
8098 203 313 0.49 1490 1497
8300 192 303 0.53 1490 1498
8300 192 303 0.53 1490 1498

as you can see on the chat. when my engine make a peak HP. that is the point when it run leanest.. if dave say it run lean.. It really are .

So that is why I told dave... please tune the engine to safe condion. and I am pretty happy with power already...
that's cross finger and see...

GUITARJUNKIE28

something's wrong with that... you don't usually jump 0 hp in 400 rpm, then 30 hp in 200 rpm.

either the dyno is wacky, or your setup has SERIOUS issues.

speedturn

iTrader: (1)

Your EGT is too low; it doesn't sound like too lean.

Gap the NGK -115 race plugs to .025"

Dynojet dynos are very sensitive to rotating inertia (weight of tires; wheels, brake rotors, driveshafts, etc.). Any change of those items will change the dynojet numbers, even though engine flywheel horsepower may stay the same.

GUITARJUNKIE28

**** it mang... grab a haltech

crispeed

[QUOTE=
I was like DAM this is AMAZING !!! 313 Engine HP AT 8000RPM and the Peak TQ is 203 at 8000RPM...

The another shock news is on the dyno jet , I made 230WHP at 8000RPM too. that mean my drive train eat 83HP !!! that is more then 30% of loose..
[/QUOTE]

The horsepower lost to the wheels seems pretty common on NA setups. I've seen a lot of PP motors do 220 to 240 at the wheels where the owner claimed the motor was dynoed at 300hp at the flywheel.
I've personaly made with a 51mm CLR motorsports annular discharge IDA Weber 252 rear wheel horsepower peaking at 9500rpm and staying flat to about 10500rpm. That was through a 5-speed G-force transmission and a 9 inch ford rear end. Same combination convereted to fuel injection with twin 55mm TB's made 270 RWHP and after tweaking the combination mainly with tuning the power peaked at 284 RWHP. Same combination taken a step further by converting to methanol fuel made just over 305 RWHP/177 RWTQ. It probably would have made a lot more power on regular gasolene if we continued tweaking it but the whole idea was to run on metahanol fuel eventually.
Most of the setups I've seen running the 58mm carbs are around 300 RWHP and one 62mm carb setup making 315 RWHP.
The most powerfull 13B I've ever seen and I can't quote the exact numbers because I swore not to is making well over 350 RWHP on methanol using EFI and a single TB setup. .
High rpm power loss like what you are experiencing normally points to top end fuel mixture problems. It might be a fuel supply issue or heat related. Also most of the 58mm carbs I've seen run with 100 and smaller air correctors. I've used 275 mains and 95 air correctors to maintain a flat 13.2:1 A/F from peak power to redline with a 51mm. Also both intake and header length affects power dramatically. I've played around with intake length on the injection set up above and have obtain the same power peak you described above.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

you're looking at the TQ methinks

Black91n/a

One always must remember with dyno tuning that not everyones horsepower are the same size. Some dynos will measure less than others. That doesn't mean the car is any less powerful, it just means the dyno's different. You should always stick with one type so that your horespower are always the same size. I suspect you're seeing the low HP at the wheels partly due to a slightly low reading dyno. Chassis dynos are good for tuning, or evaluating changes to setup, but not necessarily for finding out maximum power numbers.

rotaryengineering

DIYMAN25, sounds like your car is coming together. Your EGT's you posted seem low for a normally aspirated car. Those numbers would be considered high for a turbo car but, you could lean it out a little bit. Don't you race at Willow Springs in the SCCA Road Racing? You would definitely have to lean it out to race up there.

Back to my original question what ignition system are you running on your car. Just wondering because I have been kicking around different ideas and was wondering what your setup was you are running.

Thanks
Albert

Hamza734

Hey Crispeed,

How much do you think a consevative (i.e. less overlap, slightly smaller intake ports) P-port might make? I'm looking into a project car for auto-X and hill climbs. I want to be able to make *decent* power from around 3500RPM and up.... Do you think this is doable with a P-Port???

Sorry to go off topic.





[QUOTE=crispeed]

diyman25

I Dont think PP will be very effect on Solo2 at all. First noise limit. this will kill you big time .with enought muffler to quite down the motor. the car is not even drive able under 6000RPM.

How I know. because I had try this on my motor. mabe I did not do it right or some thing. I use the setup call Bob neal setup. He is SCCA EP Racer. with very good result on his SA22C( top 5 finishs at 04 and 05 SCCA run off). with dual muffler his pick up some more HP instead of looseing big time like mine at mid range. However my top end power stay about the same.


Here is the dyno with single muffler

RPM Correct TQ Correct HP BSFC EGT1 EGT2
6500 166 205 0.68 1455 1523
6800 166 202 0.79 1456 1529 7100 168 227 0.74 1453 1568
7300 169 235 0.84 1454 1572
7500 184 263 0.72 1454 1573
7800 198 294 0.68 1454 1573
8100 196 306 0.55 1455 1579
8300 184 320 0.54 1471 1622



The twin muffler at 7000RPM. only have 168HP. that and BDFC is 0.93 and the EGT is 1353 and 1572 from my other dyno paper.

diyman25

Thanks for info. yes my FC is a Road race RX-7. but righ now. due to budget I am turn this car into Time Attack special

my personal set up is MSD blaster 2 coil with two MSD 7AL. the dyno setup they use is Malloy square coil with MSD 6AL. Accoarding to the shop who help me dyno the engine. there are no different on HP wise between 6A or 7AL.

speedturn

iTrader: (1)

Crispeed - forget about a PP motor that pulls good from 3500 rpm. A PP will start pulling about 5000 rpm. Not even a bridge port motor will really make much torque at that low an rpm.

peejay

*ahem*

I suppose it depends on how you define pulls good.

Hamza734

Elaborate

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

A large overlap engine such as a peripheral port still makes more power than a stock or street port engine at fairly low rpm's by quite a bit. The key is under high load. They just don't like being under low load levels. That's where they have issues with sputtering and bucking and not doing to well in the power department. If you're racing you'll be under high load levels and even 3500 rpm will run pretty well on a peripheral port. The engine really starts to wake up at the higher end of the powerband though and power starts to go up very fast. Just looking at a dyno chart it would appear that a peripheral port doesn't make any low end power. Overlay it across a more mildly ported engine's dyno though and you'll see that low end is decent but it just rises at a faster rate as rpm's rise. For race use you should be staying up high anyways and not in the 3500 rpm range.

peejay

That's just it, you get used to that top-end RUSH and it makes everything else feel weak in comparison. Then you get in a stock engined car and wonder if the throttle's only opening halfway or the timing is severely retarded or something...

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

A p-port can make peak torque very low in the rpms, look at some p-port airplane engines. It can be relative to intake length, and exhaust setup.

FIBREMAZ

^^^From what I have gathered over the years torque seems to be effected most by intake lentgh. I have a very short 45 degree intake and my throttle response is great,idle is crisp and still makes power until 9200rpm. On the other end of the scale my mate runs a Guru/Xtreme Rotaries PP motor which has a side draft style manifold,light throttle response is not so great but the motor is capable of making power all the way to 11500-12000rpm with the right exhaust, this particular motor also puts out an astonishing 400+ nm of torque!! That is crazy torque for any N/A motor. I run injection on both my PP motors (45mm and 48mm 13B PP's) and I highly recommend to anyone running a weber to upgrade, fuel economy is vastly improved over weber consumption and drivability can't be EFi can't be beaten, nor the fact that you will rarely need to retune with EFi unlike with webers. I had a carbied bridgeport motor before I went PP and EFi and it was streets behind in all areas compared to EFi

Here is a pic of the GURU PP motor I mentioned, it runs mammoth 60mm throttle bodies and a very interesting injection setup

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Nice engine bay! I take it the downstream injectors are the primary injectors?

FIBREMAZ

^^^I can't remember off hand, I think you're correct though.

Latin270

Any updates on the Dyno w/ this set up?

diyman25

Cant believe . the last time i fire up this engine is back in 2006!!!!

Time really fly... and i learn a lot of good useful info from this thread to help me to build my 13BPP

into Phase2

Thing different Phase 1

Motec M2R

longer intake mainfold

TWM 56MM IDA

Injector dynamic 2200 injector

new exhaust collect right before diff into 3inch megaphone and one lava rock muffler and another

3 inch straight through muffler


The dyno might be off( old school bosch dyno with new software). but is very good begin

made 300WHP at 8700RPM !!!!! after two pull i snap my drive shaft into half at rear york side....


I dont know how to say. but without all the experience i learn here and plus a lot of good friend

from 2002-2006. i dont think i can have this goal. (emotional now)


Did i say i am the only 13B PP in Taiwan now (move back to my home country), no body even

come close to believe how 13B PP's true potenional


right now all i can say. Lets race and kick some *** !!!