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Low oil in higher G cornering?

Old 01-16-12, 09:36 AM
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Low oil in higher G cornering?

I have only autox'd a few times in the past year and have found that I induce the low oil warning at higher g corners sometimes. I always ensure that oil is full before an event. How much of an issue is this? I'm wondering how much concern this should be. Is the oil pan already baffled? If not, should I put one in? Any input would be appreciated, thanks.
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Old 01-16-12, 09:46 AM
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I have seen a thread like this before. Might want to search cause this could potentially destroy your motor. Of course I'm pretty new but I've been reading a **** ton. The thread showed that the housing got scored horribly by the rotor...just a heads up. I also believe people were reccomending a better oil pump

Last edited by MoePwr; 01-16-12 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Misspelling
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Old 01-16-12, 11:15 AM
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the low oil thing has a plunger, when you corner hard the G forces move the plunger, and turn on the light/buzzer. so it'll go off no matter how much oil is in there.
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Old 01-16-12, 12:35 PM
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the low oil thing has a plunger, when you corner hard the G forces move the plunger, and turn on the light/buzzer. so it'll go off no matter how much oil is in there.

I would say rather the plunger will move if the oil is moving- but this can be prevented.

When I had the stock oil pan I would also get the low oil level light and buzzer at auto-x in my FC.

I put the Mazda competition pan on it and a baffle plate and now I do not get the low oil level warning- even though I have gone to wider stickier tires.

The baffle sits right on top of the oil which keeps it from sloshing up the side/front and the competition pan in addition to holding 2 gallons of oil has flat sides and bottom so the oil does not slosh as easily as the stock rounded pan.

The FC pan contains no baffles from the factory, the FD pan is heavily baffled and has flat sides/bottom.

Mazda spent the money to address the issue of oil slosh when they improved the chassis for higher cornering gs; that would be enough for me not to discount the FC oil slosh as harmless.

I would not be so worried about the slosh in the quick transitions of auto-x though, so much as a sustained sweeper or sustained braking from high speed on a race track.
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Old 01-16-12, 02:51 PM
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Got a link to this mazda comp pan....?
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Old 01-16-12, 03:21 PM
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I just ground out my oil level sender and welded in my own baffles in conjunction with a 1 way door to keep oil towards the pickup.

then again my chassis is far from stock
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Old 01-16-12, 04:02 PM
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Hmmm good info. Neptune Speed made some baffle plates so I'm waiting to see if they have some left over. I haven't looked into competition pans but I know Mazdatrix has one. I don't know about that price though... But it does exist.

http://www.mazdatrix.com/getprice.as...m=01-7102-0000
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Old 01-16-12, 04:05 PM
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Also btw, thanks. I was wondering what about a competition oil pan makes it "competition."

Originally Posted by BLUE TII View Post
the low oil thing has a plunger, when you corner hard the G forces move the plunger, and turn on the light/buzzer. so it'll go off no matter how much oil is in there.

I would say rather the plunger will move if the oil is moving- but this can be prevented.

When I had the stock oil pan I would also get the low oil level light and buzzer at auto-x in my FC.

I put the Mazda competition pan on it and a baffle plate and now I do not get the low oil level warning- even though I have gone to wider stickier tires.

The baffle sits right on top of the oil which keeps it from sloshing up the side/front and the competition pan in addition to holding 2 gallons of oil has flat sides and bottom so the oil does not slosh as easily as the stock rounded pan.

The FC pan contains no baffles from the factory, the FD pan is heavily baffled and has flat sides/bottom.

Mazda spent the money to address the issue of oil slosh when they improved the chassis for higher cornering gs; that would be enough for me not to discount the FC oil slosh as harmless.

I would not be so worried about the slosh in the quick transitions of auto-x though, so much as a sustained sweeper or sustained braking from high speed on a race track.
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Old 01-17-12, 03:24 AM
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I'm not sure how well this would apply to the rotary, but I am sure it would work fine, but Accusump is a safe measure to prevent oil starvation. Works better and is safer than a baffled oil pan, and is a much cheaper solution compared to a dry sump system.

This is straight from Accusumps site.
"Accusumps are oil reservoirs that connect to the engine's oiling system. They are designed collect pressurized oil from your engine and store it so it may be discharge when oil pressure is low. Our Accusump Oil Accumulators deliver oil before starting to eliminate dry start scuffing (pre-oiling) and discharge oil during low oil pressure surges to protect against engine damage during demanding racing conditions."
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Old 01-17-12, 12:16 PM
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I would think an Accusump could be a good addition to a proper pan and baffle system as long as it is installed so it is not a liability. I have seen poor accumulator locations, mounting and dangling lines that looked more like another point of failure to me than a failsafe.

Also, in the RX-7 oil system the volume of the accumulator has to represent very little reserve time.

Think of the volume of oil that shoots out of the eccentric shaft into the rotor to cool it in addition to the normal lubrication of bearings.
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Old 01-17-12, 12:47 PM
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All you need is the baffle plate. Save your money.
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Old 01-18-12, 09:33 AM
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Thanks, I'm definitely getting the plate but likely not the rest of the stuff. This isn't a track car and I don't exactly have the proper funds... but at least in the future if some kind of opportunity comes up I'll know
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Old 01-18-12, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by C. Ludwig View Post
All you need is the baffle plate. Save your money.
I totally agree. I used to run both the baffle plate and an Accusump on my race car that was running r compound 225x50x15's. I used to get a bit freaked out watching the oil pressure fluctuate in the very high speed sweepers at Mosport when I was pulling well over 1.3 g's sustained. What I noticed is that with the Accusump, when the oil pressure dropped and the needle started to fluctuate slightly, the Accusump would release pressurized oil as the car went through Turn 8 (go to a track map) and keep pressures about 10 lbs down from normal. The only issue was the pressure would stay low all the way through Turn 9 as the engines oil pump struggled to refill the Accusump and keep pressure in the motor.

I have since taken the Accusump off the car and now I run a standard Racing Beat plate, a TII oil pump and as long as I keep the oil levels correct before a race everything is as good if not better than before. My oil pressure drops about 15 - 20 lbs going through Turn 8, but just for a moment and is fine and normal for Turn 9 now.

My only issue is oil slosh out of the breather tube when the car is really hooked up and flying. I sometimes get a over a quart of oil out the slosh tube into the catch bottle after a 3 Hour race. I am building a better baffled oil filler tube this winter.

Eric
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Old 01-18-12, 01:11 PM
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I just looked up the competition pan and it's discontinued from mazdaspeed.

I'm running the pineapple racing pan and haven't had any issues with 275 width hoosier A6s (autocross)

http://www.pineappleracing.com/fcaluminumoilpan.aspx



I like it a lot. I was having some blow by issues and the extra oil is nice. and it keeps your oil temp lower because there is more oil in the pan....

a baffle will work, but $250 for the Pineapple racing pan is pretty good.


I also run an up-rated oil pressure regulator. I imagine when my oil pressure dips in a corner it'll still be in a safe place because it was higher begin with.
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Old 01-18-12, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by C. Ludwig View Post
All you need is the baffle plate. Save your money.
+1

don't overthink it, about 2 quarts or more of oil can run up into the front cover and under the housings without a baffle plate. it's a simple quick solution for FC owners without all the brain picking ideas of how to cure it.
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Old 01-19-12, 12:11 AM
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^ Yes, I'm going with the basic solution here but I think the usefulness of the info in the thread is increasing so it must be good to keep this open. So now we know Pineapple offers a comp pan and Mazdaspeed no longer does. Accusump comes with interesting extra things to deal with and seems to not really be needed for occasional weekend autocrosser.

BTW, what are the effects of using a TII oil pump on an NA?
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Old 01-19-12, 12:40 AM
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more heat from bypassing unneeded fluids? can't really think of one. some people manage to get by running n/a pumps on turbos.
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Old 01-19-12, 07:30 AM
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I don't know about others, but I am running one to give me a total flow capacity surplus that allows me to run my 2 oil coolers and about 8 ft of large 1/2" id diameter oil line. With the stock NA pump, the recovery time was longer after a pressure fluctuation.

It was also recommended by my engine builder as I am pulling some high rpm for extended (like 3 hours) periods of time.

Eric
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Old 01-19-12, 09:59 AM
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Hmmm ok, it looks like my applications really don't require too much other than basic reinforcement. A jump to a TII-anything seems unnecessary (even my hood lol for being too damn heavy).
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Old 01-19-12, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarah7 View Post
BTW, what are the effects of using a TII oil pump on an NA?
Mazda is nice because they have laid out an upgrade path for us. each increase in HP gets some detail changes in the oil system.

the NA pump is fine, but if its a dedicated race car, or you're making 180hp + the turbo pump is a good idea.

to go from the 200hp T2 to the FD, mazda bumped the oil pressure. they also added baffles, used larger coolers, changed the bearing clearances, and balanced the rotating assembly to a closer tolerance (they don't mention what the spec is though)
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Old 01-19-12, 01:18 PM
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FDs have smaller coolers, even in the R1 dual cooler system, unless you count the lines as part of the cooling system.
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Old 01-21-12, 03:32 AM
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Isn't that an infamous FD problem? The oil coolers being too small?
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Old 01-21-12, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarah7 View Post
Isn't that an infamous FD problem? The oil coolers being too small?
i had an R1 with the dual coolers, and oil temps were totally fine on the street. on the track they are not, unless you remove a turbo.

the oil temp is related to vehicle speed, they need air flow, so sitting in a parking lot with the turbo timer on it gets hot. as soon as you step on the gas in an FD though, its going fast enough to bring temps down to 180ish...
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