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FC's with clean cage installs

Old 07-15-09, 09:59 AM
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FC's with clean cage installs

So recently i found myself getting back into the drift world and found out i have skill, enough to tandem. I find some events allow you to tandem without cages if you prove yourself, while others its straight forward and you most have a cage. So to progress i will be needing a cage that passes fia etc. I wouldnt think twice about doing this but the car is super clean inside, and only has 70k on the entire thing, it almost seems like a waste of such a rare find to cage it and cut up panels
and all that. Had future plans of doing time attack/hpde days as well.

SO the question is does anyone have a cage that keeps interior destruction to a minimium? if so toss up some pictures, or ideas. I have access to a mandrel bender, full welder, and a nhra drag bike builder who says anything we can think of he can do. So really alot is open, and this is in its being stage of planning.
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Old 07-15-09, 11:19 AM
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Well, there is always the "show me your cages" thread which is stickied at the top of this section. Lots of good examples.

By "cage" you mean a full cage with halo, A-pillar and door bars right? Not just a rollbar?

When you say "needing a cage that passes fia etc", specifically what does your organization say? If FIA is your requirement, download a copy of the spec (FIA Article 253) and have at it. The rules and requirements laid out in the article are fairly clear. But a fair amount of cutting and modification will be involved to get a full FIA-compliant cage in the car.
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Old 07-15-09, 03:14 PM
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I believe a 6 point is what i will be looking at however i suppose i do need to read a bit on what exactly i will be needing to cover drifting rules and possible time attack. I know a handful of you are thinking "time attack in a full interior car is stupid" i agree however its mostly for fun and if i ever got serious i would find some reason to change to a less "clean" chasis.

I want my damn cake and i want to eat it too!
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Old 07-15-09, 06:20 PM
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Doesn't matter how good you are, if you're drifting with a clean car it isn't gonna stay clean for long. Also remember in tandem drift you could be Tsuchiya himself and still get taken out by the other guy. If you're building a proper dedicated track car take the interior out and do the cage right. There are many advantages: less weight, no crap in the way means fewer compromises in cage design and fabrication, and more room means the cage bars will be further away from your tender human squishy parts.
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Old 07-16-09, 11:55 AM
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Can you do it? sure you can.

Should you do it is the question. The FC hasn't got a lot of head room, and you're about to install a big ole 1.5 or 1.75" steel tube inches away from the side of your very fragile head. Since you insist on keeping the interior, it's even closer to your head than if you gutted the car.

Sure you can make the A pillar bars end before the dash, but your cage won't be as stiff as it could be, you leave your legs unprotected and you're still gonna have a big ole bar running the length of the dash in front of it. You could tuck it behind the dash but you don't want to cut anything.

Go ahead and do it if you want, but if you want to do a cage for the right reason (safety, chassis stiffness), then you should do it the right way as well.
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Old 07-19-09, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 4WDrift View Post
{snip} So to progress i will be needing a cage that passes fia etc.
Then you need an FIA approved cage kit, installed per the manufacturers instructions and not modified.
Originally Posted by 4WDrift View Post
I wouldnt think twice about doing this but the car is super clean inside, and only has 70k on the entire thing, it almost seems like a waste of such a rare find to cage it and cut up panels and all that. Had future plans of doing time attack/hpde days as well.
Then find yourself a different car to track. Everyone above was right- it won't be a nice car for long if you're drifting it (especially tandem), and you need all the room you can get in the interior. Cut to the chase, sell the nice car to finance the track/drift build, gut it and cage it and you won't be upset when someone t-bones you when you spin mid track.

Originally Posted by 4WDrift View Post
{snip}I have access to a mandrel bender, full welder, and a nhra drag bike builder who says anything we can think of he can do. So really alot is open, and this is in its being stage of planning.
I always love that. "My builder can build anything.... he just needs pictures to get an idea of what I need" Here's an idea, hand him the rulebook and have him read through it. You'd be surprised at how many builders don't actually do that and just build how they always do.
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Old 07-19-09, 06:43 PM
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I will agree with drifting it will prolly ruin it, it has been a thought in my mind that it will end up ruined. I have been considering repainting it and selling it to get a vert,swap to TII,cage it. It would be much easier to weld the cage while its in the car, since the roof is gone i wont have to cut the floor pan out and drop it to get proper weld clearance.

Thanks for brining me back to earth guys, really needed a bit of advice just to realize that if i am going to do this i need to do it properly. I am gonna check on some rules involving tandem if you need a "rollbar" with diagonel door bars or a full cage with halo.

anyone know off the top of their head?
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Old 07-20-09, 07:19 PM
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I imagine it varies a bit by sanctioning body but I wouldn't even think of doing a tandem drift without a NASCAR basket.
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Old 07-20-09, 07:46 PM
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Cutting and dropping the floor pan??? Slowdown there sawzall man! There are plenty of tricks that cage builders have to get a cage against the roof and welded all the way around the tubes.

Check with the sanctioning body and see exactly what they think a cage is. Take copies of the drag racing bodies and the SCCA or NASA rules and see if those work. An FIA cage is very specific unit built by companies that have jumped through the French hoops to get them approved, I seriously don't think you will need one. The funny thing is they aren't that great anyway, find a local guy and they will probably be able to build you a better cage for the money.

And find a sacrificial shell, any car you put in a track event should be considered a write off when it first hits the track. It will get wrecked, I've seen brand new race cars come back to the shop as a ball of metal and fiberglass.
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Old 07-20-09, 08:03 PM
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gonna say that without dropping the cage through the floor you will more than likely not get proper and strong welds. this cage is the ****...however slightly over done. http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...-Part-One.aspx

Right now i believe i will continue to upgrade my seven till i find the right s5 vert to pick up and do a turbo swap and transfer parts over to it. While not the most optimal car for time attack i dont imagine that i will be posting any new records, i am more into this kinda thing for my own satisfaction and rather use something alittle different than the norm
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Old 07-20-09, 10:38 PM
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Dunno about using a vert, isn't it heavier and less stiff? Gonna need more roll cage material to stiffen it up for even more weight...
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Old 07-21-09, 06:58 AM
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I didn't mention I've been building cages for about 20 years. At the most two holes that end up under the mounting plates under the main hoop are all thats needed and you can have the cage up against the A pillers and roof if you want.

And Gene is right the vert chassis is about 200lbs heavier than the coupe. Its mostly in the thickness of the floor pan and rockers. There is also some additional material in the cowl and behind the seats. The turbo swap will help the sled though.

I have a vert chassis sitting outside my shop. Its a little rough with dents and it has no interior but it would be a good starting point for a track/drift car. I could even make you a package deal with a cage and fiberglass widebody put on it(that would fix all the dents, IIRC the doors are pretty straight)
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Old 07-21-09, 07:11 AM
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I just clicked on the link with the Z- holy crap that's a nice cage he built in there. My guess is it was about $4K for the job and yes, its a little overkill for anything but running against DTM cars.
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Old 07-21-09, 10:39 AM
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If its still outside your shop this spring i have a close friend in orlando, so we could work something out. Just right now i am getting ideas on things before i dive head first into anything.

I realized the vert chasis is heavier but when it comes down to it, again not breaking records here. a street ported 13b, with bnrstage 2-3 turbo will easily touch the 320 hp mark and i believe will be enough to satisfy my lust, so 200 pounds if i got serious could easily be removed and replaced with lighter steal, with the proper cage it wouldnt effect anything. am i wrong?
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Old 07-21-09, 07:44 PM
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With more power and no real rules it should still be a blast to drive. We have one in my shop that is built to SCCA E Production rules(like the Mazdatrix one) and its impossible to get it as light as the rules allow. Rules allow 2300 and we can't get it below 2400 or so with driver. My coupe built to the same rules needs ballast to get up to the minimum. I'm really **** about weight when I build a car though, every tab and bracket that was not needed was taken off the chassis and the cage is just enough to save my bacon and get the chassis stiffness up to about 5 times the suspension stiffness(beyond that is a waste).

The vert chassis is just a spare for the race car, if the race car gets balled up it will be needed. The vert race car is for sale right now so I think you'll be safe waiting, I'll keep you in mind if its going to move.
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Old 07-21-09, 10:02 PM
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Also, FYI there is a really good local cage builder over in Hillsborough, NC. PM me if you want his contact info.
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Old 07-23-09, 04:03 AM
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