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Anyone with no power steering that autocrosses?

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Anyone with no power steering that autocrosses?

Old 07-24-07, 01:18 PM
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Anyone with no power steering that autocrosses?

Does anyone do this? I'm installing my FMIC and scratching the air conditioning and power steering. I heard you could possibly relocate the power steering, but just wanted opinions if I did infact have to lose it .. on how it handles, and if its possible.

BTW this is a greddy 3 row kit (older version that comes out the bottom of each side of the end tank).
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Old 07-24-07, 01:38 PM
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It hurts.

You have more feel of where the wheels are, but you might get distracted by the increased effort to turn the wheel.
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Old 07-24-07, 01:44 PM
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but i could always mock up an electric power steering deal for the car no ?
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Old 07-24-07, 02:32 PM
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Running 225/50 710s with no power steering isn't that bad. I really like the Ultra-feel I get through the manual rack. I find that the extra effort is only there for barely-moving turns- anything over 10 mph or so is fine. Steering effort builds with angle and wiggles with grip.
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Old 07-24-07, 03:05 PM
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fb bracket....look into it thats all I'm gonna say
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Old 07-24-07, 07:15 PM
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I've autocrossed and tracked my car with a manual converted power rack and it's fine. Sure it takes a little more effort, but to me the feel is worth it. I'm even getting a faster 15:1 rack to convert to manual and use.
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Old 07-24-07, 10:15 PM
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My SA has no power steering and with R tires its hard sometimes. If I need to correct a slide or nacigate a tight slalom I cant quite turn the wheel fast enough.
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Old 07-26-07, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hurleysurf24 View Post
Does anyone do this? I'm installing my FMIC and scratching the air conditioning and power steering. I heard you could possibly relocate the power steering, but just wanted opinions if I did infact have to lose it .. on how it handles, and if its possible.

.
I removed the power steering from my FD and drove it for 20 miles on a twisty road.

A road course is do-able without P/S, but I think autox would be very difficult.
This was with 245/45/16 Toyo T1S tires.

The 265/45/16 V710's would have been a handful.

Sure you could do it, but slaloms would be quite difficult IMO.

TurboJeff came to the same conclusion for his Grass Roots Motorsports Challenge car: too difficult to do slaloms and tight turns, and that was with an FC.

The P/S went back in my car after that.

I didn't actually try autocross, and the car has a new engine, and is not yet broken in or tuned.

The Maval rack conversion is supposed to be better than the line loop conversion, but I want to drive an FD with one before I try that.
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Old 07-26-07, 02:18 PM
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so is there a way to move the power steering or set up something different that lets me keep my intercooler piping ?
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Old 07-26-07, 02:19 PM
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I do it with my 1st gen, and it can be a real workout. Sometimes, in the tight sections, you have to go hand over hand so fast that you can get tied up in knots. lol. Happened this past weekend, and took out four cones at once before my arms got caught up again.
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Old 07-26-07, 04:58 PM
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Road course you'll be fine.

Auto-x you won't be fine. Look at the National level autocrossers, those guys typically will take the weight penalty and keep PS. It is just too hard to be precise while going through the tight stuff.
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Old 07-27-07, 09:31 AM
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Even on the road course, if you're not used to it, by your 4th and 5th 20-minute racing session, your muscles will start to cramp. (I have a manual fluid drained power-rack). And I'm by no means a small, frail, weak individual. I find that I have to muscle the steering if I need to correct a slide, but I can get there fast enough.

Now my friend's manual 20:1 rack, he says, is very doable, even in autox. So, to each his own.
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Old 07-27-07, 04:47 PM
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Mine is the standard manual rack, I have no problems in a road racing sprint session, but then I usually only have 3 30 minute sessions on track during the day. Really don't notice not having power steering except in the paddock.

I could see an auto-x being much different.
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Old 07-28-07, 12:20 AM
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My friend owns an FD with the power steering lines looped back. I drove his car (17" wheels with 255-width street tires) at an autocross once, and it was a noticeable difference in effort. I didn't miss any slaloms, but it took at least half a lap to get used to it. If you're a very aggressive driver who is always making steering corrections, you probably won't like it.

If you're running race tires, you should probably keep the power steering. If this is your street car and you're just autocrossing for fun, you might prefer the feel of the manual rack. I'm planning to remove my PS as soon as I can figure out a clean way to keep the A/C.


-s-
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Old 07-28-07, 09:16 AM
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I ran my FD with 265/35R18 Hankook RS2's with the lines looped. It was more effort without a doubt but it was definetly something that can be handled. I don't believe that the increased effort translated into slower turning. Of course I have aftermarket seats that hold me in quite well too though. The course was actually one of the tighter courses. I have now went to a full conversion and it made a very nice difference. I can't wait for the next auto x with the full conversion should be much better.
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Old 07-29-07, 12:28 PM
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on the fc's, i like the 17:1 rack ratio, with the ps, i find its perfect.

the 15:1 is too fast (i'm used to 1st gens), and effort without ps would be way to high, you end up concentrating on muscling the wheel, instead of positioning the car.

the fc manual rack is fine, effort wise, but 20:1 is a slow ratio, you have to fast with your hands!
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Old 07-30-07, 12:16 PM
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If you have good upper body strength its not that bad. I run 16x10 Hoosier Slicks on my FC with 6 of caster and its not an easy car to turn but its not impossible.

Once your used to it and develop the strength its just fine. Road course? I prefer not having PS but in autocross, yes, its tough and easy to fall behind through the tight stuff, but when you have a good run and your on your A game its a very nice setup and it gives a ton of feedback. I can feel her getting ready to wash out and can adjust before she does. I personally could never go to Power Steering I do not like the disconnected feeling.
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Old 07-30-07, 01:50 PM
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I had the chance to drive one of Man In Black's cars (1st gen). The steering was incredibly light! I would have sworn that he had power steering, it felt that good. What he did was swap out a couple of the gears in the steering box, and replaced them with parts from another Ford steering box. He did a short writeup on it somewhere....

Anyway, he'll be doing one for me shortly. The difference is hard to believe...
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Old 07-30-07, 03:43 PM
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i feel that, if you're going to take out ps, use a manual rack, that being said, i'm going to try out a 15.2 rack with looped lines to see if that's any good.
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Old 07-30-07, 04:35 PM
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I have a maval rack in my FD w/ 255/40 Falken RT615 it is pretty heavy when trying to park or make any slow speed manuevers. I also notice the effort on sharp 90 degree turns at moderate speed.

It is great for high speed steering feel but I think it would be a big detriment to autox. I think it would make the car slower for autox.

At the very least you have to adjust your driving style. I have to sit closer to the wheel and more upright to get leverage on the wheel. I am not a small/weak guy either (6'2" about 185lbs) I did the decathlon for Arizona State's track team. To me it is a lot of extra effort.

On a positive note! I do like having the freed up space in my engine bay!
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Old 07-30-07, 04:48 PM
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275/40r 17 front and rear, manual rack, Im 6'2" I moved the stearing wheel 6" closer to me and I dont notice the effort during autox or road racing...

I notice it a little drifting.

If your a bigger guy i say ok, but if your a featherweight summitt sells billit aluminium powerstearing pumps that weigh nothing
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Old 07-31-07, 12:21 PM
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