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Adding lightness ll

Old 04-24-05, 10:54 PM
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Adding lightness ll

I pulled the glass out of my rear hatch on my EProd project today. The glass itself weighs 33 lbs. I searched and found a bunch of guesses so now we know. I haven't decided if its worth building a f'glass frame yet we'll see if I get close on weight and can't find another area to lighten. The frame seems pretty light by itself.
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Old 04-25-05, 07:04 AM
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And if you wanted you could cut out the back side of the frame. So all you'd be left with is something you run the rivets through.
The other thought I had was to form the lexan into the right shape, and not even have a frame.
Good luck
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Old 04-25-05, 09:20 AM
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That may be called "Adding lightness lll" If I do anything like that I'll post the weight saved. I don't know if I can run just a piece of lexan and no frame, that would be nice, I'm going to check the rules a little closer.
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Old 04-25-05, 09:49 AM
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Running without the frame violates the rules. You have removed a piece of bodywork. Replacing the glass with lexan is allowed, replacing the frame with another material is aloowed

Alternate material windshields must be IDENTICAL in SIZE and CURVATURE to the original glass component.

Last edited by banzaitoyota; 04-25-05 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 04-25-05, 10:28 AM
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Thanks banzaitoyota, I was going to dig out my GCR but that sounds like an SCCA rule that I remember.
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Old 04-25-05, 11:12 AM
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I had the GCR at work
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Old 04-25-05, 03:56 PM
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Weighed the hatch frame today, 17lbs w/o glass. Might be worth making a mold after all, a lot of the weight is up top by the hinges.
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Old 04-26-05, 12:14 AM
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Can you post pictures of what the frame looks like after you cut it out? I've got a Lightweight RX-7 project that will have a rollbar and rear braces, and if it's really 17 pounds I'd cut that out in a heartbeat. Same goes for the soon-to-be EP car!
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Old 04-26-05, 06:45 PM
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Interpretation

If you form a single piece of Lexan and paint the area that was not glass to look like a frame, is that legal? Since fenders and hoods and valences, etc can all be alternate materials, the question is really whether it is ok for it to all be one piece. Believe me, what appears to be clear cut to ONE person can bewcome incredibly twisted and bizarre to another. Luckily, my EP car has NO frame on the hatch or I would be tempted to try it! As a matter of fact, maybe I can make some fenders and hood out of lexan and tour the country in my "Visible Racecar". Maybe I can get Revell to sponsor me, and release a model of my car........yeah, thats the ticket! I'll tour the country with my wife..........................Morgan Fairchild ........................................... (whom I've slept with)........................
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Old 04-26-05, 08:09 PM
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I once saw a post where someone had cut hundreds of holes in the frame to try and save weight.
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Old 04-26-05, 08:39 PM
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Boswoj, you didn't happen to fight crime in a tight red, white and blue suite with magic wrist bands did you? Sounds like you miss your airplane I couldn't resist.... I'm sure the GCR rule means that a frame of some sort seperate from the lexan has to be there in EProd. After I get most of the heavy stuff on the chassis I'll decide if I need to lose the 12 or so pounds a f'glass hatch frame would save. If I do it will be available along with the kit we have for 'vert Eprod bodies.
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Old 04-26-05, 09:14 PM
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If a fiberglass hatch frame is legal, then the only thing making it different from a one piece lexan hatch would be connectors. Lets say you make a one piece hatch, cut a line where the frame portion of it would be, and glue it immediately back together. Now you have something that was a window and a window frame in two separate pieces for 5 seconds but is now is one piece of lexan again, if you trust your adhesive. I am not arguing one side or the other really - I just have gotten used to the murkiness of the SCCA GCR. I think it would be a rambunctious tech inspector that would ding you on this oner either way. Lets face it, even though I am glad it has been clarified and allowed, it shows that the rules are pretty maleable when the two piece disks that 7's only and Jackass race junk from KC have been found to be legal. (Actually - I was a little concerned as my age is so much more, eh.... elevated than the norm here that no one would have ever heard of Tommy Flanagan!) Good Luck!
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Old 04-26-05, 11:27 PM
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I know what you mean about the rules and 'rules creep' that occurs. I just sit down with my lawyer and a GCR and decide what I can do. I don't think a tech inspector would care (until you towed your car to the run-offs) but a competitor might. If you made a lexan frame the same contour as the steel frame I don't think they could touch you. It just kind of hard to do so f'glass is the easiest option.

I once had a techie argue with me that a liter catch bottle was not legal because it's less than a quart! I had to quietly show him that a quart of liquid fit nicely in a liter bottle.

Is paint considered a material? Could we just "attach" a paint frame to our lexan hatch????
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Old 04-27-05, 12:43 AM
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Hi John,

Yeah I have seen a couple people who have gone with the glass frame and lexan rear hatch on a 2nd gen coupe... Works well. IIRC the lexan window and frame weigh less than the original frame alone.

I will endeavor to find the link.

I have also seen a person with a lexan hatch only. No frame at all.. BUT it didnt fit too well as the lexan didnt conform as well as it should have.. and I believe it was found in violation.. but dont quote me.
Mike (ISC) sells a rear hatch with lexan in it already.. if I remember.. and its pretty cheap.... but I am with you.. make the mold.. pop out a CF or Glass frame.. and pop in a piece of lexan and call it a day.

Now if I could only find the time to get working on my EP car instead of only driving the ITA car and helping out the other two teams I am working on weekends with.

BTW.. If I have time I will call you and try to stop by this weekend if you all are there...
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Old 04-27-05, 07:21 AM
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BTW, All of you are forgetting the golden rule of the Secret Sports Car Club of America: IF IN DOUBT, DON'T!
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Old 04-27-05, 12:19 PM
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Good in concept, BUT - at the highest levels of National competition it seems that "If it doesn't specifically say you can, YOU CAN'T" has been replaced with "It's easier to wait for someone to protest you, file an appeal, request a clarification, rip the rules and the rulemakers on the internet, apply for a variance, then request that the rules be changed because that part is no longer readily available, and anyway - everyone is already doing it so it will cost a billion dollars to make everyone convert back to .............. LEGAL".

Just having some fun.
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Old 04-27-05, 02:06 PM
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No hair off my back, I hang aout with some serious rule "benders"
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Old 04-27-05, 04:34 PM
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Hey, can some of you guys come to the Runoffs in '06 and/or '07? I'll put you on my crew list....
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