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1st gen rally car

Old 12-09-06, 04:02 AM
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1st gen rally car

i was wondering, can i build a rally car that i can run on the track too? Has anyone had any experiences with both rally and track racing? Im sure there will be differences, but i want to know how many.
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Old 12-09-06, 08:33 AM
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The problem is that cage design for a rally car is generally not legal for track use, and vice-versa. What road racing class would you be concerned with? (If you just meant trackday type stuff, then sure, why not?)
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Old 12-09-06, 08:54 AM
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The ride height of a rally car much higher to create clearance for rocks, limbs etc, whereas a road racer has minimal clearance to lower the center of gravity, I forsee a big barrier here unless you are willing to change out all your suspension for each event.
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Old 12-09-06, 11:52 AM
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im mostly interested in rally. But if there was a track day in seattle or portland i would probably go for it just for fun...
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Old 12-09-06, 11:55 AM
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Then design it for rally and have a blast on the hard stuff, you may not win but you'll be a crowd pleaser.....doing it slideways is always cool
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Old 12-09-06, 07:49 PM
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What he said. And PM with what kind of suspension stuff your going to use. Build a Rally FB has been a dream of mine for a few years now.
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Old 12-10-06, 08:02 AM
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I don't see what the problem would be, Steve. If you have a rally car you should have a bunch of spares in the service truck ready-to-go *anyway*. $2000 for a pair of replacement struts is cheap compared to spending $5k to be at a rally and then DNFing after the first stage because you trashed a strut and didn't have a spare...

So, the point is, you have to swap stuff out sometimes anyway, so keep a set of "road course" springs/struts/shocks on-hand and be ready to swap them out. Swapping rear springs/shocks takes ten-fifteen minutes, tops, and swapping front strut assemblies can be done in an hour, less if you get away from using the 1st-gen knuckles or at least modify them for replaceable struts JVAB-style.
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Old 12-10-06, 04:59 PM
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How do I do that. I am jsut wondering. I have some Profesionaly built rally shocks from a Nissan Stanza Rally car. Would they wor well with the first gen if they fit? Also, it has coilovers in the rear, should I use those coilovers and attmept to addapt them to teh Rex (front or rear). The rally car Had stiff coil springs for the front, however, I am 90% sure they will not fit.
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Old 12-11-06, 01:06 AM
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im really going for a beater rally car. I certainly dont have 2000 dollar shocks in the semi-hauler... i may have some extra parts, but no extremes. Im 18 and going to college, so money is tight, but i have a pretty decent budget, i can work on my own cars, and im determined...so... it will be fun.
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Old 12-11-06, 01:13 AM
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Any type of "offroad" activity is going to be hard on your car. You will be constantly replacing parts that have either broken or just plain worn out. Expect everything to get "loose" due to the hard hits on the suspension, body panels will begin to rattle, etc.

I took my 85 to a dirt track race this summer, mostly because it looked like a blast and they assured me that the track was smooth enough for even a 3rd gen. However, there were lots of ruts and it was very rough. After three runs I just felt too bad about what I was doing to my poor car. I didn't break anything, but I was convinced that I heard all kinds of new rattles and such for weeks afterwards. Really, if you aren't prepared to completely destroy the car then I would suggest either staying on the pavement or attending Rallycross events (which are pretty well maintained and smooth courses).

But, if you are planning for a junker/beater car, then I'd say go ahead and destroy it and have a blast while doing it.
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Old 12-11-06, 01:25 AM
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No kidding. race...crash...fix...repeat as necessary.
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Old 12-11-06, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by swiffer
im really going for a beater rally car. I certainly dont have 2000 dollar shocks in the semi-hauler... i may have some extra parts, but no extremes. Im 18 and going to college, so money is tight, but i have a pretty decent budget, i can work on my own cars, and im determined...so... it will be fun.
Well, if you want to rally, you are going to need over $2k in personal safety gear (driver's suit, gloves, shoes, underwear if you cheap out on the suit, helmet with intercom ESPECIALLY WITH A ROTARY, HANS system which are still in the 4-figure range) , as well as a proper rollcage, certified seats and belts, which would pretty much be the bare minimum to get you on stage. Maybe $5k right there. Between entrance fees (generally in the $500 range), fuel for the tow (do NOT plan on having a drivable car, especially if you're unprepared), hotel, food, etc, most people spend $3k-10k per weekend.

So no, it is far from cheap, and $2k for a pair of struts is actually on the cheap side for something that won't break, probably.

There's a reason why a lot of people never bother with stage rally, the VERY HIGH initial expense, and the also very high continuing expenses.
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Old 12-11-06, 10:57 PM
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Nobody's mentioned spring rates, but what most people don't realize is that first gens don't want insane spring rates on pavement. As a matter of fact, the spring rates in my car are softer than those in my buddy's rally Integra Type R. So, if you got coilovers (dont know how you'd do that in the rear, but bear with me) all you'd need to do is adjust your rideheight via the spring perch and hit the road course.

Of course you could always go to Pikes Peak -- they run road course setups (including tires if it isnt wet)!
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Old 12-11-06, 11:18 PM
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im with peejay, and im not trying to discourage you, but building a rally car is not cheap. i am also building a rally car, and i am finding that parts (to be done properly, safely, and proffessionally) are not cheap. you are not going to want to slack on certain parts, because those parts can be the factor in you living or dying (i.e. roll cage.)

if you want to get into staged rallies, id look into rallycrossing to see if its really something you're going to want to get into before you spend money in building it up to the max. to have a good time with rallycrossing, 'all' (in my opinion) you need is a basic suspension set up, good set of off-road tires on strong rims, harness to keep your butt in place, helmet, and various tools in case something happens. rally crosses (at least in the NER of SCCA) are
$40 and stage rallies can run well over $1,000, so its not a bad place to start.

ive been to a forrest rally where ive seen people replace windshilds, suspension set ups, body panels, making custom exhausts (which was the most impressive automotive act ive seen to date,) etc. anything you can imagine can break has been broken on a rally stage. by all means, im not saying this to discourage you, but just to give you a better understanding.

either way, it can be done. good luck on your building process and keep us informed. im definitely interested in seeing how this turns out.



here's an SCCA note on Rally Crossing:

RallyCross, fun outside the painted lines

RallyCross is a timed competition pitting a driver and his/her vehicle against a defined course. The course is delineated by cones on a non-paved surface such as dirt, gravel, or snow. Participants attempt to traverse the course as fast as possible. The entry fee and equipment requirements are considerably less than most other forms of motorsports.

For some, RallyCross is a fun way to practice low traction driving skills. Others just enjoy the fun and camaraderie of the day with other auto enthusiasts. And to others, itís their first step towards performance rallying. RallyCross is a cost effective way to measure interest and skill at "doing it in the dirt" as well as a great way to practice your car control skills. Because the course is laid out with cones, a driver can make a mistake and not suffer damage to their vehicle that they would if they hit a rock or tree practicing on back roads.

You can drive your own car! Most contestants race the same vehicle they drive to work each day. The car must be mechanically sound and have working seat belts and a hard top. All loose items from the interior and trunk need to be removed for safety reasons. Entrants must have a Snell 95 or newer helmet. There are different classes of vehicles, based on the vehicle and improvements, if any. The classes are production and modified, in both 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive groups.

Each run around the course is timed and recorded. At the end of the event, all of a driver's times are added together. The total times of each driver within the class are compared. The driver in each class with the lowest cumulative time wins. New England Region usually runs one event per month. There is even an annual series, spanning all seasons, that crowns champions at the end of the year.
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Old 12-12-06, 03:51 PM
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http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...beater_part_1/

This is what got me going...

Sounds like a blast to me
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Old 12-13-06, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by swiffer
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...beater_part_1/

This is what got me going...

Sounds like a blast to me

It is a blast. You can build a budget car but it will still cost a good bit to build and maintain. I have personal experience with both rally and road racing. I will have to say you can not build an all out rally car and an all out road race car with the same car. There will inevitably be compromises made for one or the other that can not be overcome.

I do believe you can build a budget car that will perform both tasks semi competitively. As most have posted, now that there are track days and rally cross, you can build a "fits all" car that will only need small changes to go between disciplines. Don't plan to be competitive but you will probably have a blast with it!

The only other thing that comes to mind is how my Father explained rally racing to me. If you can't flush $100 bills down the toilet without regret, you are not ready for stage rally.

-billy
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Old 12-13-06, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bwaits
The only other thing that comes to mind is how my Father explained rally racing to me. If you can't flush $100 bills down the toilet without regret, you are not ready for stage rally.
The way I have heard it before was if you can't take your car, push it off of a cliff, and walk away without looking back or thinking twice, then maybe rally isn't for you.

A lot of people seem to go in thinking "I like *this* car and I want to rally it." Then what happens after you wad that car up, you stop competing or do you get another shell? (Or did you plan ahead andhave another shell that you were prepping with a cage and such getting it ready to go for the eventuality of balling up car #1)

I really like what one veteran rallyist said... Run a car that you absolutely hate. That way you won't feel bad about launching it into trees or driving full-bore on a flat tire/bare rim for two or three miles.


Rallycross is nice. It is absolutely nothing at all like rally except for the driving off-tarmac part. (And a lot of rallies *are* on paved roads...) It's more like autocross, without any of the bullshit that keeps autocross from being fun. You don't need to do any mods at all to a car to make it competitive, just show up and drive.
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Old 12-13-06, 10:23 PM
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I think I will jsut build a rally Festiva out of Nissan Stanza rally car parts, and a 1970's Civic Race car parts lol. For engine swaps in the future if I want to get competitive, I can go Mazda B series, custom job a KA24E in their.... or Slap in a rotary lol.... I wonder how well the Nissan Stanza Front Shocks will fit on a Festiva lol. Rears are coilovers so that will be easy to do lol.
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