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13B Track reliability?

Old 02-28-03, 03:56 PM
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13B Track reliability?

I've considered getting an FD and tracking it, but I'm worried about engine reliability. Would I need to do anything different than general street reliability upgrades? I was thinking of going with M2 Performance's Stage II or Stage III package eventually, mostly because I've heard good things about their chip, something about it smoothing out the boost spike at a high rpm or something. Other than radiator, intercooler, vacuum hoses, etc., what else should I change? Sorry if this has been brought up before, I couldn't find anything on a search. Thanks very much for the help.

Adam
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Old 02-28-03, 06:08 PM
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There's some threads in the FD forum, which discuss this topic. The Race Car Tech board is relatively new.

There are better products available than M2 (MHO).

Work on brakes, suspension, tires, and cooling system.
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Old 02-28-03, 09:32 PM
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Don't be swayed by the above comments. M2 Performance designs all of their product to provide SAFE and RELIABLE power gains. They have been designing products for the track enthusiast for quite some time now. All of their product design was track tested in their race cars and many of their customers are track freaks.

Power is actually the last thing to do to keep the FD reliable. Cooling has to be top priority, not only upgrading the radiator but ensuring that as much as the air getting into the nose opening is getting to the radiator. This involves fabricating some panels in the nose to direct air straight to the rad.

Also your oil cooler(s) should be looked at to be sure none of the fins are bent over (which is common). Then brake fluid is the next thing on the list. A fluid like Motul or other high temp brake fluid is of utmost importance on the track.

And let's not forget the biggest thing to keep an FD's longevity is driver awareness. Always be aware of the what the car is doing, keeping an eye on gauges so you can sense a issue before it becomes a big problem.
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Old 03-01-03, 08:47 AM
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Re: 13B Track reliability?

Originally posted by sscguy
I've considered getting an FD and tracking it, but I'm worried about engine reliability
That's a very real concern. The FD 13B REW motors are virtually disposable. Many track FD owners go maybe 60K to 70K miles, some as low as 40K miles on remans. I was lucky to get 102,543 miles on the original motor and turbos. Actual motor failure was caused by a cooked coolant seal. The last tech who worked on the old motor forgot to reconnect the thermosensor harness; basically--assisted suicide--al la Jack Kavorkian (hee hee ) Keep your Integra Type R for track. WAY MORE RELIABLE AND CHEAPER TO MAINTAIN than tracking an FD! You just have to get used to pointing everyone by in the Integra

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...35#post1538435

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Old 03-01-03, 10:30 AM
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Just out of curiosity, where does the classic NA FC fall as to tracking reliability and having to wave around other cars? Paul seems to do okay in his, judging by the videos. Only cars with a lot more power to weight seem to pull away from him without falling back in the curves.
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Old 03-01-03, 02:47 PM
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If you've got the scratch, Brad Barber's track-only yellow FD is for sale. It's well sorted out, and is as bullet-proof as any FD can be prepared to be, not to mention F-A-S-T. Brad's car has a T78, the biggest single turbo you can run on an FD! Better act fast, Fritz Flynn has serious interest in Brad's "bumble bee"!

Of course your skills need to go up with the car's potential, and this might not be the best car for a beginning track driver.

http://www.bradbarber.com/BBnew2DD.jpg
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=157152

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Speed Sauce Racing 1993 Mazda Rx7 R1
http://www.opentracking.com/emmanuel_lozano,_93_rx7.htm

Last edited by SleepR1; 03-01-03 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 03-01-03, 04:59 PM
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Let me weigh in here..

Cost would be the big factor in tracking an FD, parts for those things are not cheap. I agree with PaulyD's priorities, get the cooling system working, on any turbocharged car, but especially the FD, cooling is your key issue. Make sure the car is stone cold reliable, swap out brake pads, decide if the shocks need attention (probably will on a car 7-10 years old), and then go take it out. Don't stress about all the other crap, you can add that later. Just make sure you can't kill it by overtemps, you have decent brakes, and shocks that aren't broke.

88Teg,

The FC NA is a good platform to build on, it's very reliable, the S4 GXL got the big brakes, and you can really simplify the engine (if you take some streetability losses in stride) to make it easier to work on. Power's decent, but not great, it's depressing sometimes going down the straights, but overall, it's a nice package. You'll definitely want to do some reliability things (new radiator/waterpump/coolant lines, flushed oil cooler, SS oil cooler lines, new brake fluid and pads, look over the brakes and brake lines), but I would definitely recommend an NA FC for open tracking. Plus, they're cheap as dirt, prang one, buy another Can't say the same for an FD (or even a DC2/DC5 'Teg)
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Old 03-02-03, 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by Silkworm
Let me weigh in here..


The FC NA is a good platform

they're cheap as dirt
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Old 03-07-03, 05:12 AM
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"cheap" is a RELATIVE term LOL
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Old 03-07-03, 12:58 PM
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I've tracked my single turbo FD once and it has all the usual upgrades... It did fine but I ran low boost (11 pounds vs 15 on the street) and I still had to keep a close eye on the water temps.

In my limited track experience, I think you can track one as long as you have everything working at factory specs with better brake pads, good fluid, and most importantly, PLENTY of cooling!

Brian
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Old 03-09-03, 10:53 PM
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Get some upgrades like doing the trick to make the fans run at max without the AC on and get a upgraded thermostat, maybe some watter wetter. It will track fine.
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Old 03-11-03, 12:46 AM
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I track my FD and it runs great. I have a single turbo so the air intake temperatures are very very low, and so are the water temperatures (never above 100celcius even in summer). I used to have twin turbos, and I used to see the air intake temperatures go a high as upper 70's (with the m2 stage 3 setup) and water temperatures over 100. This was all done with all the cooling and reliability modifications.

If you can get the FD running properly, it'll be a vicious track car, if you have the patience to deal with it though
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Old 03-11-03, 03:31 AM
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FD TRACK

FD is nice. they look sweet and run fast. but the problem is they cost too mucch. almost every one want one and most FD on the market need a lot of work to be a OK TRACK CAR( the newest FD in US is a least 8 years old. that's a lot for sport car) . if just to build the ROTARY race car. 1 gen is way to go. IN my REGION ( SCCA) u will see aleast 20 1 gEN race each other. and for the cost u can build one for a low as 3000?
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Old 03-11-03, 03:47 AM
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just do it, it'll hold up just fine.
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Old 03-11-03, 05:06 AM
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I agree 1st or 2nd gen is the way to go for full race car, but neither will have the speed potential of the FD. I guess nothing in life is free. There's always a compromise (sigh). I guess if you want to look at well-sorted FD track cars, look at Brad Barber's and Fabian's. Of course deep pockets are a necessity...
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Old 03-11-03, 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by SleepR1
I agree 1st or 2nd gen is the way to go for full race car, but neither will have the speed potential of the FD. I guess nothing in life is free. There's always a compromise (sigh). I guess if you want to look at well-sorted FD track cars, look at Brad Barber's and Fabian's. Of course deep pockets are a necessity...
not as fast as FD?
HARD to say. THE SCCA GT3 1gen? and ITE 2 gen should be pretty fast. IS sounds funny. but one of fasttest FD in SCCA SCA REGION. is NA. not a regular NA. the car has PP NA. the car kick every one's *** in ITE
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Old 03-12-03, 05:34 AM
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The SCCA GT rules allow tube-frame chassis. The FDs in GT are merely fiberglass bodies. They still run 12As. I'm referring to true FDs with true monocoque FD bodies.
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Old 03-13-03, 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by SleepR1
The SCCA GT rules allow tube-frame chassis. The FDs in GT are merely fiberglass bodies. They still run 12As. I'm referring to true FDs with true monocoque FD bodies.
NOT the GT body FD. is true monocoque FD bodies with 13B PP. check the link . the RED FD in link is what I am talking about not GT CLASS. ITE
http://www.mazdatrixmovies.com/lapg.mpg
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Old 03-14-03, 04:41 PM
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Re: FD TRACK

Originally posted by diyman25
FD is nice. they look sweet and run fast. but the problem is they cost too mucch. almost every one want one and most FD on the market need a lot of work to be a OK TRACK CAR( the newest FD in US is a least 8 years old. that's a lot for sport car) . if just to build the ROTARY race car. 1 gen is way to go. IN my REGION ( SCCA) u will see aleast 20 1 gEN race each other. and for the cost u can build one for a low as 3000?
if you want to run open track events, time trials , just have fun, and have a good amount of expendable cash, then go with and FD. you gotta do it right though....done right, the FD is an extrodinary track car that competes with many cars with three times the money in them.
if you buy the average FD, you'll easily spend 15K on top of the purchase price making it track worthy (reliable and fast). that's assuming the thing is ok to begin with. i still think you'd be better off buying a sorted out FD....but expect to pay upwards of 28-30K.

having said that, if you want to actually race your rotary though, FB and FC are probably better choices. SCCA and NASA are not terribly friendly to the FD. actually they make it damn near impossible for a joe blow to make the car competitive. NASA SU may be the occasional exception, but even then it just depends on who shows up.

good luck
fabian
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Old 03-15-03, 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by diyman25
NOT the GT body FD. is true monocoque FD bodies with 13B PP. check the link . the RED FD in link is what I am talking about not GT CLASS. ITE
http://www.mazdatrixmovies.com/lapg.mpg
Duhhh-aaam! That red FD just plain disappeared out-a-sight! WTF is PP NA? So that red FD was NOT turbocharged?! Holy Shiiaatt!!
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Old 03-15-03, 07:21 PM
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peripheral port. I believe they have a higher powerband rpm-wise than bridgeports. I dont see that it could have more than 300 hp though. I could be wrong though. Quite easily.
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Old 03-15-03, 09:04 PM
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13B PP

PP. cant make a lot of HP. I have seen one 13B PP FC with haltech ECU. make 260 WHEEL HP on DYNO. that was 312 HP. and with out turbo, intercooler, intake manifold. U save around 120 pounts + . but the down side is the power band. power wont come out until 6000. usually need a close gear ratio gear box. however most OF FACTROY RACE car use PP. IMSA GTU. 787B etc
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Old 03-15-03, 09:04 PM
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Let's see......

From GT spec line:
FD bodied tube frame car in GT2
12A PP
13B

Last year at the Runoffs, I looked carefully at both examples of the FD bodied cars.

There were FD bodied cars in GT3 as well with the BP 12A.

I remember racing against some TII FC's at the Glen a few years ago. They were from Steel Cities I believe, ran in SP, and one was driven by Coy Gupta. I wonder if those cars are still around NeDiv? I think the FC could be a really good car in ITE. Then again, in CenDiv you would have to run against Danny Kellermeyer and Kip Wasenko and all the rest of the Killer Vettes!

db
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Old 03-15-03, 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by SleepR1
Duhhh-aaam! That red FD just plain disappeared out-a-sight! WTF is PP NA? So that red FD was NOT turbocharged?! Holy Shiiaatt!!
TO answer your Q . YES the FD u seen is not turbo. and is not EVEN EFI. THE FD USE WEBER IDA CARB. sound not to hi tec righ? but if u can wining the race and cut the cost down. why not just use cheap way...
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