Anders_R

hello all !

I just got my rx 7 tuned mods are: full 3" exhaust with MSD LC1 ignition and apexi PFC.

Now to my problem: I got some problems with the sequentials. First turbo os going good normally 0,7 bar boost but when i floor it for example in 2nd gear when transition comes at 4500 it sometimes goes down to 0,36 to like 5700 rpm then 0.63 to redline. 3rd gear goes normaly good in primary but secondary drops to 0,5 and then slowly goes to 0,65~ . I tried to logg it with my datalogit but i dont know if i did right. i dont know how to play it so :/ i upload it and i hope u guys help me out.

Thx

/Anders

think this work: logg.rar - Speedy Share - upload your files here

Anders_R

I see now that i only uploaded the "map" and not the logg runs, when i go to "logs" cannot see the txt files? but i can see them and load them in FC edit?

Anders_R

noone?

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

It's unlikely that this is anything related to the PFC, so you won't find much advice here in the PFC section.

This link here is a pretty good start for troubleshooting the twins:
Troubleshooting

You'll need to make sure the secondary turbo is actually good, make sure everything is hooked up correctly (especially your pressure chambers and their respective check valves!)

Anders_R

My tuner said that the second turbo is little slower than the first so he had to change the transition. Why i say this is because i didnt notice this with my stock ecu ;P thats why i think its the transition points in the pfc
and the boost problems is mostly on second gear after 4500rpm. not in other gears

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

The point is that the secondary shouldn't be slow. It's either slow due to a bad tune, botched settings in the PFC, or something mechanical.

What settings are there in the PFC for turbo control? If you have FC-Edit and a Datalogit or similar device, it'll all be on the "Settings 1" page.

Anders_R

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

hmm very bad pic. that was the highest i could make it in Fc edit, :S
if u got fc edit my map is on first post. "gon.dat" or if u know any other upload site :p

Anders_R

"Turbo transition"

"TPS1" low High
2,988 3000 4400
1,992 3000 4480
0,996 3000 4680

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

I forgot you had uploaded your FC-Edit dats, so I looked at those. The only thing that stands out is the low duty values for the boost control. Was there any particular reason for such low values? Are you using the factory solenoids or have you swapped them out? If you're on the stock solenoids, try:

Primary: .90 45
Secondary: .80 55

See if that brings some life to the secondary.


ETA: The boost settings work in this manner: The first box is the 'target' boost level, and the second is the base duty cycle that the solenoid will begin operation from. Too low of a value and you'll likely induce lag/have a lack of response. Too high a value will cause spiking/inconsistencies. However, the stock PFC settings on the twins are around 55-65% duty cycle, so those values should be even on the safe side of normal. The primary settings control the pre-control solenoid, which will effect the secondaries pre-spool, and of course the secondary settings are the wastegate itself.

Anders_R

Hi!

He Said something that he had Hard time to tune
In the secondary turbo. But if i raise it that much them i Will get to much boost? My Max boost in 4th gear is 0,8 bar

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

The PFC will cut boost if you are 0,25 over the set limit, so set them both down to 0.75 or 0.80 while you test for a little added safety cusion. If you are using a stock solenoid/turbo control setup, those numbers are much more conservative than the stock PowerFC settings. If you are uncomfortable with such a large change, try smaller increments of 5, such as:

20
25
30
35 etc

The primary number won't do much to your overall boost, as it deals with the pre-spool, so you should be able to set that at 45 and be plenty fine, it'll just help get that secondary turbo in gear during the transition period. Work up the secondary number slowly and you should see better response.

Anders_R

Ah okey, My tuner Said max 0,9 bar first turbo and 0,8 in second. I just try to understand everything then it gets alot easier. He Said if i higher the values the end boost Will also raise?:p. Ofc i can try it out first turbo i think is gooing good.

Anders_R

So i should put on "PR" 45%? and then on SC try 5% more every run ? u sure its not the sequential thing wrong ?:p i read here on the forums on some thread that some ppl finetuned the sequential really good :p

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Here are the transition settings I recommend for most applications of the stock sequential twins:



The "High" values are default values in the Apex'i map. The "Low" values have been raised 500rpm based on my real-world testing.

FYI, "High" is the rpm at which the charge control and turbo control valves switch (also charge relief and precontrol) during acceleration. "Low" is the rpm at which the values go back into operation for primary turbo only operation. "Low" could also be called a hysteresis value. As far as tuning the target & duty settings, make sure you log each change. The TPS(V) refers to the Full range TPS voltage, also called VTA1.

Then post them here. Attach the .txt and .dat files here instead of linking to an outside site.

Anders_R

Hi mate! thx for ur help appreciate it very much.

u dont think i should change the duty values? or shall i change the transition to your settings and try that first before changing duty? or change ur settings + "PR" to 45?

Also 1 stupid question maybe but i record in the "Monitor" window. how come i only see the real time data when i "start" the logg? soon as i end the log the realtime data just "stop"

/Anders

Anders_R

This is the only logg i got atm, im at work so cannot log more until tomorrow. was my first logg so i guess its kinda failed. 2-3 gear.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

The transition points will change when the secondary operation starts/begins, the duty cycles will control the rate the turbo spools during transition and the overall boost afterwards.

I would do like you suggest, bump the primary up to 45 duty cycle, this should only help spool up the secondary during transition, shouldn't hurt your overall boost. Then, the secondary duty cycle, increase it by 5 each time and pay close attention to your overall boost and the transition points. Also, keep an eye out for spikes too. But, this should help considerably if all the solenoids are stock and nothing much has been changed.

Anders_R

Hi mate!
Everything is stock exept full 3 exhaust and msd ignition
Will try that tomorrow and see how it goes

Anders_R

Hello!

Could not logg today cuz my laptop wasnt home :/
but did a few runs with my eye on the boost meter ;p

changed to

PR: 39 from 20
SC 39 from 35.

Boost is better now it seems going around 0,77 bar to around 6k rpm then it drops to 0,55 in 2nd gear and 0,64 in 3rd gear. has the transition changed from 4500 to 6k? the boost is better i guess now. think i can finetune it more, any sugestions?

would be nice to allways have like 0,75 bar ;p

Gonna make logs asap as i get the laptop

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying entirely.

Typically, when I think of diagnosing the sequential turbos I think like this:

Primary Boost (before the transition) -- ideally .80 bar or so
Transition period (during transition) -- around .50 bar or so
After transition (final boost, when both turbos are going) -- back to .80bar

So, I'm thinking you're saying your pattern is like this:

0.77 bar -- 0.55 bar -- ????? In 2nd gear
0.77 bar -- 0.64 bar -- ????? in 3rd gear

The transition period shouldn't have changed, you should notice a quick 'dip' and even feel it wherever your transition points are. By the time you're up over 6k rpm you should be well into running off the wastegate with both turbos working together.

A datalog would be very useful, as we'd be able to see the transition when it happens and see if you're just bleeding off boost in the upper RPM due to the low duty cycle or if the transition is really that late.

I'd try to get a datalog of what you have right now and we'll see what's going on to determine what to do next.


EDIT: Oh! I also forgot, since your transition "low" points are set to 3,000rpm, if you quickly go from 2nd -> 3rd and the RPM's dont drop below 3,000rpm in the process, they will operate in non-sequential mode. So, for the sake of testing the sequential operation, you will need to make sure you let the RPM's drop between gears so that the sequential mode is active in each gear as you make a run, otherwise you're going to notice a bit of 'lag.'

Anders_R

Hi !
Yes that is What i meant.

0,77 to 6k and after it drops to 0,55 2nd gear
Same thing in 3rd just that it has 0,64 instead of 0,55.

What runs do u want log on to see best?
Thx alot for ur help i appreciate it very much
/Anders

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

A run in 2nd and 3rd gear (separate) should do it, just drop the RPM down below 3K between the runs so you can be sure the sequential operation is in effect. That'll give us some good information to work with.

No problem on the help! Gives me something to pass the time while I build PowerFC USB adapters, lol.

Anders_R

Hi
will do it today after breakfast do u want it in the same logg file or 2 separate logg files? just hade a question about Logging. when i start the logg by "F1" in the Monitor window i see all the live datas, but when i end it on F2 i cannot see live datas anymore? u know why?


edit: talked to my tuner. he said that reason for 20%pr was because otherwise the boost when "runaway". he also had to change the transition points by 200 rpm higher he said otherwise it was a big "dipp" in transition change. :p maybe i got a solenoid broken or something ?

Anders_R

Hiho!

did some loggs for u mate.

1 thing that i notice is the second gear, u can see the dip in the last logg file with many numbers as filename :P the boost goes down to as low as 0,39 in transition only happens sometimes, normally is 0,5. . 3rd gear goes really good as i can see on the playbacks! .. going to post 3 files. the first one maybe is not so good but i post it anyway .

"2-33" file PR34 SC 41
"2-333" file pr34 SC 43 (not much change dunno why i did so low change)
"Log_201etc" pr34 sc 41 .

My stock rev meter is fucked up thats why i sometimes gets low rpm on the logs when i drop the throttle my revs shows 8,5 and loggs like 7. :p

//Anders

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Well, the big dip in the transition is because the duty cycle is so low on the pre-spool! If the secondary isn't spooled at all and it cuts over, there's going to be a huge dip. So that behavior is expected. I'm not sure why they would've justified setting it so low or how that would cost boost to run rampant. I'll check the logs.