rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Where do we stand with these injectors and how do they compare with the Injector Dynamics?

Are there any other sources for high impedance injectors to consider?

1000s

2000cc


1000/2000 kit

Can anyone comment on how people should* be sizing their injectors, by flow rate proportionally Primary VS Secondary, assuming there is a fairly solidified consensus answer to this?

If a person knows their desired power range and has reached a point where changes to a system are minimized, is there a advantage to selecting components that meet the requirements (with a reasonable SF of course) of a engine and power level?

Are smaller injectors really the way to go to be able to attain good/optimal precession control in the idle range?

What is the ideology we are trying to accomplish rather than just bigger is better when it comes to injectors and hopeful taking into account a specific system and power level?

bufferovrflo

iTrader: (7)

Bump this. I'd like to know also.

Don't give me the walk around ID are better cause; actual comparisons please from fitment to tuning.

rxspeed7

iTrader: (5)

I would def like to know if anyone has used these also. seem to be the same as id but hella cheaper.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

As with any non stock design, you need adapter to make parts fit.
If you buy the "IDs", they either come with new rails or adapters to make them fit in the older Bosch rails. If you go out and buy the EV14 as are, you will then have to buy the adapters separately.

More time and more money.

A friend has 550/2000 on his stock port twins FD which has all the external engine mods to support 400+ hp. His injector transition is perfect.

FullFunctionEng

iTrader: (13)

For us, Injector Dynamics injectors are the only injectors to consider. Are they more expensive? Yes. Are they worth it? Absolutely.

The top two reasons:

1- Dynamic testing. They're +/- 2% from max down to 15% duty cycle. A big part of why people can get away with running such large injectors.

2- Data. They come with flow and dead time sheets covering the entire operating range of the injector. Check out their horsepower calculator too, very different than the standard online calc. Ask Five-O for a data sheet on that 2000cc at high pressure and see what they'll give you.

I'll get to your sizing questions tomorrow, but I agree bigger is not necessarily better.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Thank you.

And if you could please, expound on the issue of sizing when a system will not change and if there is an advantage to specific flow rates for both primary and secondary injectors.

Also as an aside, I am really wondering if moving away from a staged setup, and to a series setup would have any advantage?

Or even if power levels where low enough, could one simply run a single larger injector?

rxspeed7

iTrader: (5)

so you've done your own independent testing on these to verify what there selling is true? fiveo has the datasheet for each inj when its shipped also and has one on there site. so im not sure what you were trying to implie there.

both companies use the same injector and prob the same machine for modifying them, so why is one better from the other?

FullFunctionEng

iTrader: (13)

ID uses extremely precise flow measuring equipment, not the "industry standard" of flowing into a graduated cylinder with a representative fluid. BTW, this is not the "industry standard" which SAE set long ago.. Yes, aftermarket injector suppliers have been using those methods for a long time, but not at the OEM level. ID is bringing aftermarket injectors to the OEM level.

Back to sizing - some good questions you have rotarypower, I'll do my best to answer them.

The ideology we are trying to accomplish with sizing is to optimize efficiency. Meaning, more power with less fuel. We try to accomplish this in a variety of ways and we are constantly evolving using newer technology to better this. Obviously spray pattern and atomization are big factors here, as you want the best air/fuel mixture as possible. ID had a display at the PRI show with all of their injectors flowing with stop motion so you could see a lot of detail. I would think they could put some of the video on the site so everybody could compare. The 725, 850, and 1000 were all fairly similar. A tight bunch of tiny droplets that seemed to break up rather quickly. The 2000 was also very tight, possibly even tighter but seemed to carry more velocity. I would gather you would want them pointing directly at the port to reduce wall wetting. If your power goals are sub 400hp, I would think 1000's at high pressure would be the better answer. But if you're looking for more than that, 2000's in the secondaries will be necessary.

For specific sizing, there could be something there for primary/secondary sizing. I've heard from Paul (an avid rotary enthusiast himself) that a 725/2000 combo seems to match the proportion of air flow of primary to secondary quite well. That could possibly mean a more homogeneous mixture before entering the chamber. Back to back testing would be the only way to know for sure if/how advantageous this could be.

What exact fueling strategy do you mean by running them in series?

Running off just 2 injectors would be interesting, and I've heard Paul has done this with the ID2000's on primaries only. Typically the closer to the port, the better the idle would be, and the further from the port, the more time the fuel/air can mix leading to slightly better power. Again testing would be the best method. I would like to spend some time playing with injection timing here also, I imagine that could play a key role in idle quality.

These are some strategies I've been pondering for a while. It would be interesting to make a thread similar to Howard Coleman's turbo comparison and spend some dyno time comparing different fueling strategies with some real data logging.

Well I hope that helps and doesn't leave you with with even more questions...

Gearhead

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to resurrect this. Just a question. I have acquired a '94 that was built by Gotham and tuned by Steve in '04. It's running 850/1600 with a Supra pump, aftermarket rail, aeromotive regulator, GR67 (T04R?) and a defunct Aquamist 2D (dead pump). I'm guessing this car was state of the art 8 years ago.

Would I see any benefits in switching out my injectors to ID? The car starts and idles fine. I think transition is fine, but I haven't ridden in any other high HP turbo rotaries in years. Should I go through the trouble and money to toss what is under the hood (injectors and tuning) and start over?

I'd like to be in the 400hp range and safe... which I think the car is. For now, I'm running low boost (13.5psi) because the car has been sitting for 7+ years and I'm easing back into it. I got the receipts for all the work. WOW! The engine and trans only have 7k miles since reman.

Jason

iTrader: (5)

If the car runs well then I wouldn't mess with it.