Captain_Panic

iTrader: (15)

just like the title says I recently went NS and fired the car up. It idles a lil high prior to being warm, but I removed all the emmissions and went Non Sequential. Once it hits about 62 degress Celsius it idles at about 850-900 rpm. everything spins up well and I think I did an ok job... time will tell.

I know I have read that there are a few settingto change for the PFC for NonSequential Operation. Can anyone give me some insight and direction as to what I should change after finishing this modification?

THanks,

arghx

iTrader: (3)

What are your AFR's under boost? Were you using the PFC for boost control before?

Captain_Panic

iTrader: (15)

Yes the PFC is handling boost... and I don't have a wideband yet (eeeek!! - This and Oil Temp and pressure on the NEXT thing on my list)

The car was tuned to about 10.9 at 14psi about 1.5years ago. In Just puttering around the neighborhood it spools to 5-7 psi no prob under light load, but thats all I wanted to take it too.

BTW, I cannot find where to set the PFC to Non Sequential... I went through my settings and didn't find it.

Captain_Panic

iTrader: (15)

K after going through the PFC manual again I found the Sequential setting and turned it off.

So I am good there. I think now I am good till I get my re-tune.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

You need a Datalogit and a wideband. I'm not optimistic that you will be able to get the car running right

in terms of priority, oil pressure and temp are practically useless. Oil pressure gauges don't tell you much unless you just rebuilt the engine and you want to make sure nothing is messed up. The needle will move up and down but it won't tell you anything that the "add oil" light won't. Oil temperature, while nice to have, isn't all that important when you can read water temp. The water temp and oil temp don't differ that much. When it's cold out the oil temps will be lower than the water, when it's warm it will be equal or a little more. For most applications, oil temp and pressure are just dancing little needles taking up space in your interior.

The Datalogit will let you take logs so you can post them up here for other people to look at. It will let you swap in maps. And it will give you access to a lot of hidden settings like air temperature adjustment and a very critical boost control setting that you will most likely need for your non sequential conversion. And I don't need to tell you the important of a wideband. Put all your money towards those two things, forget about the oil temp and pressure gauges for now.

Captain_Panic

iTrader: (15)

Arghx - Thanks for your feedback here. Trust me I agree with you. No way I am going to be able to tune this myself. This weekend I have an appointment to get the car tuned by a local shop and he should be able to get some of the intial stumble out of the map when I go from Cruising to Flooring it, and hopefully allow me to continue to utilize the PFC and injector duty cycle to keep boost right at or below 1 BAR (which is 14.22 psi right?) I have thought about just flipping the $$$ for a Halman manual Boost controller which I will probably do anyway to better keep any boost creep I may start to see.

For your and anyone else's reference, the turbos and wastegates and manifolds were completely ported to gasket match and polished for excellent air flow. Boost definitely comes on early, but I don't want to go boosting heavily until I am for sure about my AFRs and tune. I have a TwinPower as well as a highflow cat and complete M2 intake with a M2 medium intercooler.

Sureprisingly enough the car runs rather well after removing the Airpump (bought a Pineapple racing idler for water pump pulley contact patch) EGR, double throttle, etc. The Idle is about 250-300RPM more than I want it to be until warm and then it is perfect in the 850-900 range. The datalogit makes alot of sense and I will probably forgo the Pressure and temp gauges for now. I can easily use that $$$ for the datalogit instead and get the wideband too.

Anything out of the ordinary I should make mention to the tuner for more power and reliability?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

If he has a Datalogit, use the following settings to enable non sequential boost control through the PFC:



the boost and duty settings vary for every car. but you will have to enable sequential turbo control (yes I know that doesn't seem to make sense but trust me) and set sequential transition to 2000 rpm with 1800 hysteresis value. then use the "boost" settings a coarse boost adjustment and the "duty" setting as a fine boost adjustment. solenoid duty is logged as "Advanced WG%" in the Datalogit, where a value of 255 is 100% duty:



you can also wire in an aftermarket solenoid if you want to, MAC/AEM or Apexi or GM or whatever. they're all about the same. The tuning is actually pretty straightforward: try different combinations of boost and duty settings and see what happens to the boost and duty curves.

your warm up idle speed depends on ignition timing and the fast idle system (if you even have it). It's hard for me to say anything more through internet diagnosis without at least having a copy of your map and some logs. If you have Idle IG control on, the PFC will run fixed/open loop timing until about 60C and then switch to closed loop control where idle fluctuates. You can lower your idle speed by retarding timing during warmup, either through the warmup retard setting in the Datalogit or in the ignition maps themselves. Go into the settings-->IGL/IGT/Fi menu, the diagnostic one, to temporarily retard leading and trailing timing during warmup. You'll see what I mean.

This and idle can be the most difficult and time consuming things to tune, especially when you have a ported engine.



those are two underused tables that can greatly improve your tip-in throttle response. Those are custom settings I used on a street ported FD on sequential twins. That table on the bottom left is zero'd out by default. When you adjust those tables it can require retuning of the fuel maps. It's a time consuming process.

Captain_Panic

iTrader: (15)

Arghx, Here is my map. Take a look and let me know what you think. TIP in is TERRIBLE. Idle is great now.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Timing looks good. You might want to increase the value in the +80C box for INJ vs Air temp. Make it closer to the value in the +50C box. Otherwise you may have it lean out a little bit when it gets too hot outside.

For tip-in, try messing with those two boxes I showed above. Just for the heck of it, try using the values I showed in the screenshot, or something similar. See what happens when you do that. It is hard to get tip-in as good as a completely stock car. You'll almost never have a standalone with the tip-in response of a factory computer, and porting makes it worse.

So what are you using to control boost right now?

Captain_Panic

iTrader: (15)

Using the PFC solenoid controls for boost right now. Right now it pushes up to 15PSI, and then rolls back to 13/14 in WOT when opening up the newly ported Wastegate. I have a dyno graph I will get posted later tonight showing this.

I need to also set the transition from the 3800 and 4xxx RPM mark to 1800 and 2000 like you stated as well...

I will try the Tip in Settings you showed. Interestingly enough, when I put everything back together, I failed to hook up my cruise control. When I realized i left it unhooked, I hooked it up but missed the bracket it is held in so it caused my idle to be high due to the cable tugging on the throttle lever. When this was happening, Tip in was MUCH better and the car would actually decel much smoother with out all the herky jerkies. It also made it much easier to launch. After I fixed the cable, the tip in issues all returned. Hopefully some of the things you show here will help that.

Captain_Panic

iTrader: (15)

Take a look at this. The Tune looks real solid for what I am doing. AFRS dip to high 10s then to low 11s through the powerband on the Wideband onthe dyno.

Boost Spiked up to 15and then settles between 13 and 14. I think if I change the PFC settings and then start to fine tune the boost settings I can get it to stablize better around 14 throughout and get a lil more power too. The torque #s suprised me!

Captain_Panic

iTrader: (15)

Arghx - You are right. Having a datalogit is a beautiful thing. I have the turbo transition settings set appropriately now. I am now capping out at 13PSI of boost with my current settings. I still need to change my 80C + setting to make it equal to the 50C setting for Inj vs Air Temp. You are right I don't want to blow the engine due to a lean condition, but then Again I don't think I have ever seen intake temps hotter than 60C and that was on a hot restart.

The wideband I purchased has a problem, so I will save the other tuning bits for after I get the controller issue solved.

Arghx, one last question. Will messing with my tip in tables cause any fuel map issues? You state changing these around may mean I will have to modify my fuel maps. I want to try your settings as shown, but before I do, I want to make sure I know what i am potentially effecting.

Attached is my current map. Very similar to before. Give it another look. When I get my wideband working I will start logging some pulls and street driving.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

If you haven't tried this already: In the monitor window select "Advance" only. Log a WOT pull in 3rd gear. In your chart window, make three separate charts with 3 traces. The first is Advance RPM, set a range of 0 - 8000. Make the second one PIM with a range from 10000 (0psi) to 20000 (1.00 kg/cm^2 boost or 14.22psi) or however high you want. The third trace is "Advance WG%" . Make the range from 0 - 255 . 255 corresponds to about 100% solenoid duty. Also put up at least 3 watches to correspond to these charts. Here I am looking at the boost, rpm, and WG duty on my single turbo T04R setup:



Try making fine adjustment to the "boost" and "duty" settings and then observe what happens with charts like this. Note that I like to set the "primary" and "secondary" boost and duty values to be the same if it is a non sequential or single turbo setup.

Let me put it this way. With the factory sensor in the factory location, you will have to deal with sensor heatsoak. Now depending on how you have the table adjusted, either the engine runs richer or it runs leaner when the sensor has heatsoaked(duh). You're probably better off having it go somewhat richer in a heatsoak condition.

When you get your fuel map dialed in decently well, most of your tuning will then consist of making slight adjustments to the IAT correction maps as the weather change. All you're trying to do is reduce AFR fluctuations as the weather changes--you can't make them go away. You can look into the Triumph open element sensor which reacts faster than the factory sensor and the heatsoak issue isn't as big of a deal. With my Triumph IAT sensor located in the TB elbow (close to the TB) I will still have AFR's fluctuate +/- .3 AFR or so in WOT operation. And I have the IAT curve adjusted so that it will intentionally go slightly richer when air temps are higher.

If anything does need adjustment, it is most likely to be your off-idle area of the fuel maps (which may be need to be leaned out). I don't have your car far in front of me and I certainly haven't driven it, so I can't give you a definite answer on this. Where you really notice improvements in tip-in is when you are coasting down a hill in 2nd gear and then try to get on the gas a little bit. It can stumble and start bucking pretty bad, but if you adjust the various tables which affect tip-in you will hopefully be able to at least mitigate the problem.

My only suggestions at this point are to try messing with those tip-in settings and set your "primary" and "secondary" settings for each option to be the same. Technically it is the secondary setting that really matters on a non sequential setup, but doing that keeps me from getting confused. WOT fuel and timing look good. They may not squeeze every last HP out of the engine but it will be fun and [knock on Walmart furniture] reliable.

If you are using the factory 2 port wastegate solenoid you can try converting to a 3 port solenoid just like you would find in a Greddy, Apex'i, or AEM boost controller:

http://www.frightprops.com/FrightPro...ID=A-0013-0082

That's the same as the AEM solenoid, it's around $25 if you get the 1/8 NPT one. If you don't want to hardwire it you can buy this pigtail to connect to the factory harness plug: http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...oducts_id/1674 .

Here is an explanation of 2 port + restricter vs 3 port solenoid on an internal wastegate (not Rx-7 specific but still explains it well) :

http://perrinperformance.com/pages/show/113

Captain_Panic

iTrader: (15)

Awesome feedback!

Fun and reliable is what I want. BTW, i have the Faster acting IAT installed as well. It is in the stock location, but I have definitely noticed faster response times with it and heat soak is no where near as bad.