Power FC Installed PFC... floored it in first... broke loose 1500RPMS earlier!
12-01-04, 12:57 AM
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Installed PFC... floored it in first... broke loose 1500RPMS earlier!
I installed the pfc and let my car warm up to 85ēC. Then i went on the streets... floored it in first and i broke loose alot quicker than i normally do. My car also runs smoother at idle and when revving. OK OK no more joyous writing.
I know i shouldnt even be worrying about why installing a PFC made my car go faster but... can someone explain why it did this? I know the base map on it is set for intake, IC, DP, CB. And all i have on my car is damian's heatshiled, bomez hardpipe intakes and 2 k&n filters. I know i dont need the ECU right now... but i got excited
. Sooo so i know im probably running a little rich, is this what's causing it? Is it the whole map itself making me faster? I know its a good thing... but what is it! 
Jeremy
I know i shouldnt even be worrying about why installing a PFC made my car go faster but... can someone explain why it did this? I know the base map on it is set for intake, IC, DP, CB. And all i have on my car is damian's heatshiled, bomez hardpipe intakes and 2 k&n filters. I know i dont need the ECU right now... but i got excited
. Sooo so i know im probably running a little rich, is this what's causing it? Is it the whole map itself making me faster? I know its a good thing... but what is it! Jeremy
12-01-04, 01:11 AM
#2
fart on a friends head!!!
it might have something to do with that map thats in there simply being a better map than the default pfc map. that ecu isnt widely known for have a "masterful" basemap. 
paul
paul
12-01-04, 02:07 AM
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hehe yeah.... i just want to make sure that i may be going faster but not with a good cause lol. So i should be fine running with a basic bolt on map on my stock fd? car does run smooth... just worried... i KNOW someone out there knows how i feel lol. Anyone got a more detailed explanation? ALOT more detailed?
Jeremy
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12-01-04, 08:42 AM
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Well unless you messed with your boost settings, you're running at almost 11.4 psi now versus 10 psi stock. And your transition occurs at about 4100 rpm versus 4500 stock. Those things combined are probably what you're feeling.
12-02-04, 04:24 PM
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The map with 5.08 should be rich enough.
But I found out that the offset for MAP sensor reading is incorrect. Causing the car to read lower boost number, which lead to leaner condition, that will make the car goes faster.
For example, you are boosting 10psi. The PFC reads 9psi, thus only giving fuel for 9psi.
If you look at the commander with engine not running, it does not read zero but few mmHg of vacuum.
But I found out that the offset for MAP sensor reading is incorrect. Causing the car to read lower boost number, which lead to leaner condition, that will make the car goes faster.
For example, you are boosting 10psi. The PFC reads 9psi, thus only giving fuel for 9psi.
If you look at the commander with engine not running, it does not read zero but few mmHg of vacuum.
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12-02-04, 05:18 PM
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Noo...I am saying that the PFC reads lower, so it gives less fuel...
The only way to correct it is by changing the offset with Datalogit to correct the reading.
Stock offset is 3947. I had to set mine to 3647 to make it read 0..00
The only way to correct it is by changing the offset with Datalogit to correct the reading.
Stock offset is 3947. I had to set mine to 3647 to make it read 0..00
12-04-04, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by reza
The map with 5.08 should be rich enough.
But I found out that the offset for MAP sensor reading is incorrect. Causing the car to read lower boost number, which lead to leaner condition, that will make the car goes faster.
For example, you are boosting 10psi. The PFC reads 9psi, thus only giving fuel for 9psi.
If you look at the commander with engine not running, it does not read zero but few mmHg of vacuum.
But I found out that the offset for MAP sensor reading is incorrect. Causing the car to read lower boost number, which lead to leaner condition, that will make the car goes faster.
For example, you are boosting 10psi. The PFC reads 9psi, thus only giving fuel for 9psi.
If you look at the commander with engine not running, it does not read zero but few mmHg of vacuum.
chris
12-04-04, 01:00 AM
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If its reading -14mmHg. It is only about .27psi. Which is not much. I don't think the error/offset is linear. So it may increase or decrease, which I don't know. But Chuck has this info in the PFC Tuning guidelines.
I just change mine to read 0.00 before starting tuning, that way I know everything is on the spot.
I just change mine to read 0.00 before starting tuning, that way I know everything is on the spot.
12-04-04, 12:35 PM
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yeah PM chuck or email him for the updated version. I learned alot just reading about the ignition settings, fuel, timing, etc. He just sent me the updated version of the pre-tuning doc. but appearantly it helps just a LITTLE more if you have a datalogit 
lol.
lol.
12-04-04, 01:41 PM
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If you need access to it. It may be a hassle for me to dig up my datalogit, but if you know what settings you want, we can work it out together. I got WBO2 as well. I am in fremont.
12-04-04, 03:26 PM
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what part of fremont you in? all i have is an intake and heatshiled right now... but im about to order the rx7store combo DP and MP tomorrow. So i'll probably need some tuning for that. So keep in touch
12-04-04, 07:30 PM
#15
Originally Posted by reza
Noo...I am saying that the PFC reads lower, so it gives less fuel...
The only way to correct it is by changing the offset with Datalogit to correct the reading.
Stock offset is 3947. I had to set mine to 3647 to make it read 0..00
The only way to correct it is by changing the offset with Datalogit to correct the reading.
Stock offset is 3947. I had to set mine to 3647 to make it read 0..00
The PFC uses the 10330 standard, thus boost is calulated in kg/cm*2
as = Maniflod Absolute Pressure (MAP)-10330/10000 ... example: MAP 17000 = 0.67 kg/cm*2 or 9.49 psi (standard sea level referanced boost.
or MAP = 10000 ... -0.47 psi (vacuum) not zero
Our Boost gauges are either fatory calibrated to a standard pressure for "zero", thus we get all upset when we see a vacuum with engine off and say that our guage is a pos, or new "smart" electronic ones for us dumb people (yes I have one of these too), that take a pressure reading on startup but before engine crank and get the local pressure reading of the day and re-zero the meter... this is great, now boost on gauge equals boost above local atmospheric pressure at time of engine start... you know, if you then drove into the mountains without stopping this type gauge would also be missreading. But guys this is just another reference. The MAP Manifold Absolute Pressure is still not changed and that is what the engine cares about and what the CPU works from... look at the injection tables it says ABS not Boost, is reports "boost" for you and me.
I looked over Chucks tables on PIM Volts vs ABS vs Boost, The volts to ABS is very linear and fits close to this equation based on the end points: 5264.48* PIM volt- 3943 = ABS or 5278 * volts - 4004 if best fit to all his readings. Note the PFC standard offset is 3947 ... pretty close, Your 3647 offset will state boost pressure as being .04 kg/cm*2 higher, or about .6 psi.
12-04-04, 10:11 PM
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if you start comparing things to sea level then alot of people all over the world would be getting different readings. I'm a noob so i cant really be argumentative or conversational in this "PIM vs ABS vs BOOST" thing... it KINDA makes sense but the numbers are just a bunch of scrabble to me. Maybe i'd understand it more if i had a datalogit? reza where you at dude!
12-05-04, 01:06 AM
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Sorry, I don't quite understand your calculation. The last paragraph is confusing to me.
If it matter, we are at sea level here in bay area, if the map does not read correctly for that, then it needs offset to correct it right?
Perhaps when the MAP sensor is new, it will read 0 correctly, but it has been getting old, and worn thus reading more vacuum.
I don't know exactly but, when I log the stock 5.08 map, it is leaner than the target map generated off 5.08 map. When I change the offset, it is closer to the target map.
So to save time tuning, I just change the offset, and start from there.
Jeremy, I am in Fremont.
Reza
If it matter, we are at sea level here in bay area, if the map does not read correctly for that, then it needs offset to correct it right?
Perhaps when the MAP sensor is new, it will read 0 correctly, but it has been getting old, and worn thus reading more vacuum.
I don't know exactly but, when I log the stock 5.08 map, it is leaner than the target map generated off 5.08 map. When I change the offset, it is closer to the target map.
So to save time tuning, I just change the offset, and start from there.
Jeremy, I am in Fremont.
Reza
Originally Posted by Julian
The PFC Boost reading is not more or less correct than anything referanced to a "standard sea level" pressure. the world standard is 1013.25 mbars (14.7 psi, 10330 kg/m*2, ...). The real pressure is a function of altitude, temperature... and any weight related reference psi, kg/cm*2 etc is also effected by gravity.
The PFC uses the 10330 standard, thus boost is calulated in kg/cm*2
as = Maniflod Absolute Pressure (MAP)-10330/10000 ... example: MAP 17000 = 0.67 kg/cm*2 or 9.49 psi (standard sea level referanced boost.
or MAP = 10000 ... -0.47 psi (vacuum) not zero
Our Boost gauges are either fatory calibrated to a standard pressure for "zero", thus we get all upset when we see a vacuum with engine off and say that our guage is a pos, or new "smart" electronic ones for us dumb people (yes I have one of these too), that take a pressure reading on startup but before engine crank and get the local pressure reading of the day and re-zero the meter... this is great, now boost on gauge equals boost above local atmospheric pressure at time of engine start... you know, if you then drove into the mountains without stopping this type gauge would also be missreading. But guys this is just another reference. The MAP Manifold Absolute Pressure is still not changed and that is what the engine cares about and what the CPU works from... look at the injection tables it says ABS not Boost, is reports "boost" for you and me.
I looked over Chucks tables on PIM Volts vs ABS vs Boost, The volts to ABS is very linear and fits close to this equation based on the end points: 5264.48* PIM volt- 3943 = ABS or 5278 * volts - 4004 if best fit to all his readings. Note the PFC standard offset is 3947 ... pretty close, Your 3647 offset will state boost pressure as being .04 kg/cm*2 higher, or about .6 psi.
The PFC uses the 10330 standard, thus boost is calulated in kg/cm*2
as = Maniflod Absolute Pressure (MAP)-10330/10000 ... example: MAP 17000 = 0.67 kg/cm*2 or 9.49 psi (standard sea level referanced boost.
or MAP = 10000 ... -0.47 psi (vacuum) not zero
Our Boost gauges are either fatory calibrated to a standard pressure for "zero", thus we get all upset when we see a vacuum with engine off and say that our guage is a pos, or new "smart" electronic ones for us dumb people (yes I have one of these too), that take a pressure reading on startup but before engine crank and get the local pressure reading of the day and re-zero the meter... this is great, now boost on gauge equals boost above local atmospheric pressure at time of engine start... you know, if you then drove into the mountains without stopping this type gauge would also be missreading. But guys this is just another reference. The MAP Manifold Absolute Pressure is still not changed and that is what the engine cares about and what the CPU works from... look at the injection tables it says ABS not Boost, is reports "boost" for you and me.
I looked over Chucks tables on PIM Volts vs ABS vs Boost, The volts to ABS is very linear and fits close to this equation based on the end points: 5264.48* PIM volt- 3943 = ABS or 5278 * volts - 4004 if best fit to all his readings. Note the PFC standard offset is 3947 ... pretty close, Your 3647 offset will state boost pressure as being .04 kg/cm*2 higher, or about .6 psi.
12-05-04, 04:05 PM
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the 2.01 and 5.08 have different base map, inj map, igl and igt map.
the 2.01 and 7.07 is similar with more advanced timing and leaner fuel than the 5.08.
Think the 5.08 is for more modified car with better intake and exhaust flow.
And the 2.01 and 7.07 is for stock car.
the 2.01 and 7.07 is similar with more advanced timing and leaner fuel than the 5.08.
Think the 5.08 is for more modified car with better intake and exhaust flow.
And the 2.01 and 7.07 is for stock car.
12-05-04, 04:43 PM
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Reza what part of fremont are you in. IM me at majestikxbboyx14 if you have aim. I'm not sure if my version is offset but my car IS 11 years old meaning the MAP sensor CAN be reading a little off. I'd prefer running lean to help with speed but whatever it takes to make my car run the best it can is what i want.
Last edited by jeremyb; 12-05-04 at 04:46 PM.
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