TailHappy

Ahhh, Jesse, looks like you found yet another timing issue. My speculation is that by the time the Edit software gets to the lines in code where it determines the MapRef, the values have already changed. This theory is backed up by the fact that the number of lines is virtually the same for the idle areas, but when you go WOT and move through the cells quickly, that's where the error starts coming into play. So without seeing their source code, it appears to me that they poll for Advanced, then maybe they poll Basic to convert to MapRef, and by that point the pressure and RPM have already changed, so you introduce the error. Interesting find............

Jesse IL

Andre, you'll probably want the latest 2ZZ version of FC Edit.

FC Edit 2ZZGE v.1.120

http://users.ameritech.net/trdcelica...ZGE_v1.120.zip

The map dat file:

http://users.ameritech.net/trdcelica...basemap-11.zip

The log file:

http://users.ameritech.net/trdcelica/basemap_11_log.zip

Now anyone can follow along if you want to look at this stuff.

TailHappy: you somewhat glossed over what Advanced and MapRef are. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like MapRef determines which cell to log the data in based purely on the MapRef/Tracer function while Advanced calculates the cell based on logged rpm and PIM voltage? Furthermore, there may be time differences between these, similar to Advanced and Basic Knock? Please clarify.

TailHappy

Well take everything I say with a grain of salt. It's just my speculation/understanding.

But the way I've always understood it, if you log MapRef, it just polls for the cell reference. So you can log MapRef and not have to log the Advanced group, allowing you to just log MapRef and Aux, for example. On the flipside, if you log Advanced, it looks at RPM and PIM and then it knows what cell it should be in, without needing to poll/log the extra MapRef data.

So my speculation is exactly what you mention, that there's a timing issue between it polling for the MapRef values, and the polling for the Advanced group.

MichaelB145

I second that.....and if you you add "no lift to shift" like UTEC offers....you would be my god!

FastHatch

I guess by "no lift to shift" you mean full throttle shift:

Full throttle shift uses the same clutch switch input as launch control. When the vehicle is moving and your foot is on the clutch, the rev limit is dropped to around 6000 rpm (this can be changed). This allows the rpm to be matched while shifting gears while keeping the throttle wide open, which speeds up gear shifts and helps keep turbo chargers spooled up. Great for improving those 1/4 mile times, and sounds pretty cool from outside the car too.


I could add this feature to FC Tune, but please keep in mind that the PFC cuts fuel and not the ignition, therefore I'm not sure if that feature would be healthy for the engine.

The Mafia

actually, you make a good point that I completely forgot. The Fuel cut is the killer here, I am not sure what kind of impact it has on the engine but I know it isn't that great... Apparently it can lean out a cylinder here and there and cause detonation.

Not really sure. I really wish that the powerfc had a way it could be changed to an ignition cut.. I'm especially annoyed that the powerfc pro production has been stopped.

So there is no way that the fuel cut could be changed to ignition cut? I guess that would mean editing the powerfc's firmware, and I think that part of the firmware is read only in the powerfc. If someone worked out how to modify this firmware and reflash the powerfc...hhmm.. how awesome would that be..

Why the hell doesn't someone release a ECU that can recieve firmware upgrades?!

Ok enough dreaming.

As for the fuel cut, I guess it could be experimented and knock levels watched to see if there is any problems. I haven't seen any high knock levels (over 15) when I've hit the rev limiter (7200rpm) in my R33 GTS-T RB25DET for 3-4 seconds or so, so maybe it won't be so bad?

You've got to remember that when its fuel cutting there isn't really any load on the motor so it will be less prone to knock anyway.

I guess its jus going to need to be experimented with.

I'm also keen to have the antilag running, you know the strategy where they retard the timing heaps and put in heaps of fuel. Could be interesting.

Sorry if I have rambled on.

FastHatch

Comparison on a 1.5 GHz laptop, FC Edit uses 100% cpu time and gets 18 samples (lines) per second, FC Tune uses less than 5% cpu time and gets 42 samples per second.

fritts

iTrader: (5)

Fasthatch,
Just thought of another feature that might be nice to impliment. I would like to have something that tells me the % of change other settings are making on my base fuel and timing maps. This would be the effect of settings like the air and water temperature on the base map. That way we could know if there was a large correction occuring during tuning. Would make sure the base map is being tuned and not the base map plus a correction from the settings. Hopefully I explained that correctly. Let me know if something like this could be added to the data logging function.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Hi FastHatch, wondering if FC Tune will have the capability to be embedded or be skinned into other applications such as “FrodoPlayer” for the carputer crowd?

Are there user workarounds in the software for such flexibility if a user wished to integrate this fine piece of software into a car PC frontend?


FrodoPlayer is a “front end” or main user interface for touch screen usability in a car PC environment, and allows integration of many software applications into a bundled cohesive unit.


You seem like a very forward thinking individual, so it would not surprise me if future standards and flexibility were considered in the making of this software.

Link to frodoplayer
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=47

Thank you for the effort and time you have devoted to this.

FastHatch

Seems like Frodo is a Windows based carputer interface. I need to look into this to see what are the requirements. But I'm currently not adding features to the software, just looking to get out what I currently have.


---------------

Is it correct that at WOT the narrow band TPS sensor has a voltage of 4.96v?

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

From my record of physically testing 2 different sensors I made measurements of

Sensor 1 ((brand new) new style sensor with ~90deg sweep part number N3A1 4428E)
Narrow range (closed =0.62) (open = 4.98)
Full range (closed =0.40) (open = 4.32)

Sensor 2 (old sensor ~180deg sweep part number N3A1 5413E)
Narrow range (closed =1.00) (open = 4.98)
Full range (closed =0.53) (open = 4.93)

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Not asking for any new features persay…just wondering if the software would be flexible enough to have the user interface integrate into other software?

If there are any questions I can answer that you have about this carputer “front end” software I will try my hardest to facilitate.

Thank you for at least considering the possibility for users.

BoOsTin FD

I totaly agree. I don't think you should add anything else but just release the first version... Then later on after we get some time to test it out and stuff we can give feedback on how to improve it...

Amel

jilo860

i think it would be nice to have igniton cut traction control, working from the wheel speed sensors. that and anti lag could be worked together for amazing launches.

MichaelB145

good luck with that one!

Speedworks

I'm with boost'in.. very eager to try this out

mr.veilsidewankel

iTrader: (1)

when is the new version ready for download?

Speedworks

Fasthatch, hättest du einige Neuigkeiten??? ;-)

FastHatch

Sorry, I had no time to work on Tune this week because I have to work overtime to meet a deadline from [enter german car manufacturer here].

I should have something new next tuesday.

MichaelB145

Sweet!

The Mafia

fast hatch - after having a look around and talking to a few people, I've come to the conclusion that fuel cut isn't as bad as everyone thinks.

Think of it this way. When you hit the rev limiter, the injectors wouldn't just "stop" injecting fuel, even if they were halfway through a injector cycle. They would finish their cycle, and not inject fuel on the next cycle. (I've notived sometimes when I've got my limiter set to 7,000rpm, it'll get to 7200rpm smetimes)

If they stopped injecting fuel halfway through a cycle because the rpm was at the limiter, I think we'd see alot of dead engines due to them hitting the rev limiter, and leaning out because the injector stopped half way through a cycle.

When a fuel injector stops, there is no fuel. The cylinder is dead. No combustion. What do you think happens when you take your foot off the throttle? The injector duty cycle goes to 0%, and all of the cylinders pretty much go dead. This happens at every gear change, and hasn't never in the history of automobiles caused a failure. Also, injectors are very fast and rsponsive so I highly doubt that one could be "too slow" and accidentially spray a little in the cylinder while trying to cut. They are as accurate as hell. I guess they have to be.

So I think Fuel cut, and launch control would be fine.

Ignition cut can't be that good... Cutting the ignition would mean fuel getting into the exhaust manifold, and into your turbo, and igniting, raising temperatures quite high. This potentially could cause more failures than a fuel cut. Also, ignition cut would mean fuel would "wash" the bores while exiting via the exhaust port.

Just some food for though.

Its been every powerfc owners dream to have launch control and flat changing...

But yeah, can't wait to see an RB25 version!

Cubes

Fuel cut only becomes a problem when running NOS.

I've seen higher knock levels on both a djetro (cuts ign & fuel) and a regular pfc (fuel only cut) when sitting on the limiter (i.e drift). My only guess could be the engine noise created when bouncing off the limiter triggers the knock sensors.

FastHatch

I agree, but most people say that boost and fuel cut is bad. But many stock ECUs cut fuel to prevent overboosting, and most rev limiters cut fuel too. Assuming that the PFC - and I'm sure it does - cuts only a full cycle there can't be a lean condition.

nashman69g

iTrader: (3)

All I have to say is....

MichaelB145

I hope bouncing off the rev limiter doesn't create a lean condition.....That's how I launch the car since my 2 step doesn't work.....I bounce it off at 8K rpm and it builds 10 lbs of boost and I drop the clutch. Very surprised my tranny hasn't exploded yet but I'm getting 1.61 60ft times!