Jz engine help.
02-12-11, 02:07 PM
#26
There seems to be a lot of info being thrown around, so I'll give my $0.02. I have done both the LSx and 2JZ swaps into an FD so I can give you a pretty good indication of what's involved. First off, the 2JZ is definitely heavier than the LSx (LS1/2/6/7 etc.) aluminum engines. Think about it, it's an all aluminum, tightly packaged V8 vs a long, iron block I6. As far as costs of the swap, the LSx swap will cost you maybe $3-4k for a pullout with engine/trans/wiring/ecu/accessories. The 2JZ can be picked up for around $2k for an aristo pullout with an auto trans and wiring, but you are still going to need to pick up a set of rear sump pans, manual usdm harness (unless you want to do some wiring extension/repin connectors), ECU, and a manual trans (R-154 is good for up to maybe 800 hp, Getrag V160 for anything over that, but $$).
If you really think swapping in a completely different engine is not much more expensive than rebuilding a rotary, you are getting ripped off on the price of a rebuild.
If you really think swapping in a completely different engine is not much more expensive than rebuilding a rotary, you are getting ripped off on the price of a rebuild.
02-12-11, 03:53 PM
#27
There seems to be a lot of info being thrown around, so I'll give my $0.02. I have done both the LSx and 2JZ swaps into an FD so I can give you a pretty good indication of what's involved. First off, the 2JZ is definitely heavier than the LSx (LS1/2/6/7 etc.) aluminum engines. Think about it, it's an all aluminum, tightly packaged V8 vs a long, iron block I6. As far as costs of the swap, the LSx swap will cost you maybe $3-4k for a pullout with engine/trans/wiring/ecu/accessories. The 2JZ can be picked up for around $2k for an aristo pullout with an auto trans and wiring, but you are still going to need to pick up a set of rear sump pans, manual usdm harness (unless you want to do some wiring extension/repin connectors), ECU, and a manual trans (R-154 is good for up to maybe 800 hp, Getrag V160 for anything over that, but $$).
If you really think swapping in a completely different engine is not much more expensive than rebuilding a rotary, you are getting ripped off on the price of a rebuild.
If you really think swapping in a completely different engine is not much more expensive than rebuilding a rotary, you are getting ripped off on the price of a rebuild.
02-12-11, 04:50 PM
#28
As far as lowering the 2J, yes it's definitely possible to clear the stock hood. My car has a 2JZ and clears the stock hood with the subframe I built for the car. The bottom line is that you are going to induce some bumpsteer though. You simply must drop the steering rack from the factory position due to the extra height of the 2J engine. That said, there are ways to go about correcting the steering geometry (i.e. a bumpsteer correction kit like that offered by Samberg). I set my engine as far back as possible while retaining the factory firewall and set it as high as I could while still keeping the factory hood. The issues you run into are the height of the cam gears/spark plug cover and the factory TB height. I got around the latter by building a custom intake manifold as well. My ground clearance is still good and I setup my subframe to protect the oil pan in case of anything getting close to hitting it.
02-12-11, 07:27 PM
#29
Yeah, there are options for the wiring though. LSx has a few people that will do it for you, or if not, you can find documentation on how to do it. With the 2J, people are more tight-lipped and act like it's some secret, but it's really only a handful of wires to take care of.
As far as lowering the 2J, yes it's definitely possible to clear the stock hood. My car has a 2JZ and clears the stock hood with the subframe I built for the car. The bottom line is that you are going to induce some bumpsteer though. You simply must drop the steering rack from the factory position due to the extra height of the 2J engine. That said, there are ways to go about correcting the steering geometry (i.e. a bumpsteer correction kit like that offered by Samberg). I set my engine as far back as possible while retaining the factory firewall and set it as high as I could while still keeping the factory hood. The issues you run into are the height of the cam gears/spark plug cover and the factory TB height. I got around the latter by building a custom intake manifold as well. My ground clearance is still good and I setup my subframe to protect the oil pan in case of anything getting close to hitting it.
As far as lowering the 2J, yes it's definitely possible to clear the stock hood. My car has a 2JZ and clears the stock hood with the subframe I built for the car. The bottom line is that you are going to induce some bumpsteer though. You simply must drop the steering rack from the factory position due to the extra height of the 2J engine. That said, there are ways to go about correcting the steering geometry (i.e. a bumpsteer correction kit like that offered by Samberg). I set my engine as far back as possible while retaining the factory firewall and set it as high as I could while still keeping the factory hood. The issues you run into are the height of the cam gears/spark plug cover and the factory TB height. I got around the latter by building a custom intake manifold as well. My ground clearance is still good and I setup my subframe to protect the oil pan in case of anything getting close to hitting it.
02-12-11, 08:13 PM
#30
There should be a few pics of my subframe in there. The 2JZ is definitely a great platform that can make some serious power.
02-13-11, 03:15 AM
#31
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this is very good to know. Thank you. Im still undecided as to wich way to go. The 2j is starting to sound like a lot of work and time i may not be able to handle at the moment. Check out tech2.com and look up the kits and stuff. I keep wondering about the price im getting on the 13b build. The mods are all going to the oil system wich is already a good system for someone like me who is not puching the limits of the car to drift yet. oem seals are the problem but there are other seals out there that are making their mark in the roatary world. I agree abut the jz engines being more stable by far. Im not here to argue at all with you guys. theres a reason the jzs are called the best engines to come out of japan. as for an lsx. Im not into the v8 movement. I dont think there is anything wrong with it. im just not a fan.
02-13-11, 09:45 AM
#32
the 2jz is the 3.0l tt, good HP and VERY reliable. The 1jz is a 2.5l tt, still very reliable (parts are a bit harder to find but nothing that is extrenuous since alot of misc parts are interchangable between 1jz and 2jz.) Then there are the 1jz gt vvti and 2jz gt vvti which are JDM only engines and parts are even more rare but your gonna have more torque from the vvti series engines with the same HP as the non vvti versions. The 1jz gt vvti is the only jz engine that came stock with a single turbo, and there is a bit less vac lines and crap to deal with.
I went with 1jz gt vvti since is sits a little bit lower in the engine bay than the 2jz. Ive also done the 2jz vvti and seen alot of regular jz engine swaps and they all work fine. The FD rx7 and FC rx7 WILL require the special hood since the cam gears hit the stock hood. The FC rx7 is a little bit more forgiving in hood clearance though.
The cheapest way for a transmission is automatic, but eveyone does the r154 5 speed and you can pick one up for 600 to 1200 depending on conditon. Then the v160 and v161 Getrag 6 speed is the sweetest way to go but your looking at around 2700 to 3500 used for that tranny but all of these trannys are bullet proof.
The cool thing about the kits is they dont lower the steering rack, they retain all chasis parts so if you wish you can go back to stock if you choose, and if you dont rice out your engine bay too much you can make it look like the engine came stock with the car.
Let me know if you have anymore questions or give Carlos a call at Tech2, im also on the forums at 2jzswap.com so shoot me a PM here or on that forum if you wanna also.
Brandon
I went with 1jz gt vvti since is sits a little bit lower in the engine bay than the 2jz. Ive also done the 2jz vvti and seen alot of regular jz engine swaps and they all work fine. The FD rx7 and FC rx7 WILL require the special hood since the cam gears hit the stock hood. The FC rx7 is a little bit more forgiving in hood clearance though.
The cheapest way for a transmission is automatic, but eveyone does the r154 5 speed and you can pick one up for 600 to 1200 depending on conditon. Then the v160 and v161 Getrag 6 speed is the sweetest way to go but your looking at around 2700 to 3500 used for that tranny but all of these trannys are bullet proof.
The cool thing about the kits is they dont lower the steering rack, they retain all chasis parts so if you wish you can go back to stock if you choose, and if you dont rice out your engine bay too much you can make it look like the engine came stock with the car.
Let me know if you have anymore questions or give Carlos a call at Tech2, im also on the forums at 2jzswap.com so shoot me a PM here or on that forum if you wanna also.
Brandon
02-13-11, 09:55 AM
#33
I also forgot to mention that if you do any jz series engine you WILL have to go Rear sump!! The oil pan will hit the steering rack if you have a front sump. Luckily every jz engine rear, mid/rear, and rear sump is all interchangable. The oil pickup, crankcase cover, and pan all swap out between 1jz, 2jz, 1jz vvti, and 2jz vvti 
.
Alos Tech2 is the way to go because all of there parts were professionally designed on Autocad and everything is CNC lazer cut and they have some of the best and strongest welds and all parts come powdercoated black.
.Alos Tech2 is the way to go because all of there parts were professionally designed on Autocad and everything is CNC lazer cut and they have some of the best and strongest welds and all parts come powdercoated black.
02-13-11, 11:47 AM
#34
I also forgot to mention that if you do any jz series engine you WILL have to go Rear sump!! The oil pan will hit the steering rack if you have a front sump. Luckily every jz engine rear, mid/rear, and rear sump is all interchangable. The oil pickup, crankcase cover, and pan all swap out between 1jz, 2jz, 1jz vvti, and 2jz vvti .
Alos Tech2 is the way to go because all of there parts were professionally designed on Autocad and everything is CNC lazer cut and they have some of the best and strongest welds and all parts come powdercoated black.
.Alos Tech2 is the way to go because all of there parts were professionally designed on Autocad and everything is CNC lazer cut and they have some of the best and strongest welds and all parts come powdercoated black.
02-13-11, 11:47 AM
#35
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^Haha. Ya ive talked to carlos and he is the one that told me it will cost as much as my 13bt rebuild. the tech2 stuff looks great online. Real profesionaly done! Ill hit you up man thank you.
02-13-11, 11:47 AM
#36
To get the hood close to fitting, like said already, you need to lose about 2" in height. There's no way to do it without one of two things. Move the engine back into the firewall to clear the steering rack - crank pulley clearance.
Or
Move the whole thing down with the rack as well.
With the rack 2" lower, I could barely fit my fist between the rack and the entrance to the shop garage.
I would really love to see some other's frames ground clearance with the 2" drop.
There's another guy on the boards here selling his tube DOM frame for around $2,000 too that drops the whole assembly down.
Check out my build thread link in my signature to see some of the things I've documented thus far. (As far as mechanical goes.)
For what it's worth, the Tech2 subframe has 2 weak (<1.5 FOS) areas that could use improvement.
I've done numerous mechanical stress strain calculations on the Tech2 design as well as designed my own bracketry.
Or
Move the whole thing down with the rack as well.
With the rack 2" lower, I could barely fit my fist between the rack and the entrance to the shop garage.
I would really love to see some other's frames ground clearance with the 2" drop.
There's another guy on the boards here selling his tube DOM frame for around $2,000 too that drops the whole assembly down.
Check out my build thread link in my signature to see some of the things I've documented thus far. (As far as mechanical goes.)
For what it's worth, the Tech2 subframe has 2 weak (<1.5 FOS) areas that could use improvement.
I've done numerous mechanical stress strain calculations on the Tech2 design as well as designed my own bracketry.
Last edited by MK3Brent; 02-13-11 at 11:50 AM.
02-13-11, 12:34 PM
#37
The problem with tech 2 is you have to use the god-awful cowl hood that has no place on an FD. Also, regardless of if you have to lower your steering rack or not, you can always go back to stock by simply switching back to a rotary subframe. It's not like you permanently change anything on the car (who would want to go back to rotary anyway?). FWIW, my subframe was professionally designed in unigraphics with FEA and I can guarantee my welds are easily as good as anything from tech2. How can you even claim "some of the best and strongest welds" with no data to support a yield to failure test on their welds? I'm not trying to bash you, but tech2 is not the end-all be-all of jz swap parts.
02-13-11, 03:02 PM
#39
Also, you can go custom with your hood... Which is what I'm doing.
I modified my intake manifold and am going to clean up the Q45 throttle body linkage.
The hood will have a slight bulge/bubble near the cam gears and TB.
Here are some profile pictures to show you the protrusion.
I'm hoping to do something similar to Howi's hood:
I modified my intake manifold and am going to clean up the Q45 throttle body linkage.
The hood will have a slight bulge/bubble near the cam gears and TB.
Here are some profile pictures to show you the protrusion.
I'm hoping to do something similar to Howi's hood:
02-13-11, 05:35 PM
#40
Yes i can back them up because I use these parts currently.... And yes they are very well engeneered and made.... And yes they have been tested.... Im not saying Tech2 is the only one out there that can develop the only and best stuff but they do have good stuff that i reccomend.
02-13-11, 07:31 PM
#41
You need to learn to use the multi-quote instead of typing a separate post for every response, lol. You still claim they have the strongest welds but there is no quantitative data to back that up, that was my only issue with your prior statement. I'm not bashing tech2's kit at all, just saying there are certain drawbacks to using their kit and there are other alternatives available to get around that. I will have to get some pictures of my subframe clearance, but it is not super close to the ground and my car is pretty damn low.
Post some pics of this, i wouldnt mind seeing your subframe.
02-13-11, 07:32 PM
#42
Also, you can go custom with your hood... Which is what I'm doing.
I modified my intake manifold and am going to clean up the Q45 throttle body linkage.
The hood will have a slight bulge/bubble near the cam gears and TB.
Here are some profile pictures to show you the protrusion.
I'm hoping to do something similar to Howi's hood:
I modified my intake manifold and am going to clean up the Q45 throttle body linkage.
The hood will have a slight bulge/bubble near the cam gears and TB.
Here are some profile pictures to show you the protrusion.
I'm hoping to do something similar to Howi's hood:
That is sick, let me know how yours comes out. I personally dont mind the tech 2 hood because it works great but a more stock look would be nice.
02-14-11, 04:13 PM
#43
Didnt need multi quote, first quote was for you, then the other post was a general statement..... but sure. And i said they have SOME of the best and strongest. I wasnt saying the are the only ones and no one else did.
Post some pics of this, i wouldnt mind seeing your subframe.
Post some pics of this, i wouldnt mind seeing your subframe.
That hood bulge doesn't look bad, but I'd really like to see one in person since it's hard to tell much from a picture, especially with a darker colored vehicle.
03-24-11, 02:57 PM
#44
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Hey i just finished my 1jz swap over the week, it s been a looooong time between deployments and stuff, but since i fabbed my own mounts, i was able to utilze the N/A hood just had to remove the bulk of the skeleton surrounding the motor. closes without even coming close to my T67 or TB.
03-24-11, 03:20 PM
#45
With the skeleton pieces removed from the hood, you still have a good amount of interference.
I'll post some pictures tonight when I leave the office.
I actually cut a small window in the hood and it outlines the JZ spark plug cover quite nicely.
Space the rack down one more inch, and it might actually clear with all the reinforcement of the hood relocated.
I'll post some pictures tonight when I leave the office.
I actually cut a small window in the hood and it outlines the JZ spark plug cover quite nicely.
Space the rack down one more inch, and it might actually clear with all the reinforcement of the hood relocated.
03-26-11, 02:17 PM
#47
I know ive seen the vids and i will NEVER hate on the MKIV. My only concern is manuverabilty. Im no pro drifter and im just starting but its good to have a nimble car. And the fc is pretty nimble with the stock engine in it. Ive got agx on tanabi springs. I will upgrade later. I guess i can learn to handle the beast that is the 2jz.
whats redline on 2jz or 1j?
Whats the engine code for MKIV supra engine? 2jzgte or gtevvti?
Whats the average cost of this swap anyway?
whats redline on 2jz or 1j?
Whats the engine code for MKIV supra engine? 2jzgte or gtevvti?
Whats the average cost of this swap anyway?
If you're good like me, you wont pay anything over $500 for an engine AND turbo kit for said engine. Dont buy **** from the tech 2 swap kit except for the driveshaft.
What's going to kill you is getting the RIGHT transmission, finding someone who's cool enough to not double stuff your butthole making a shifter extention and being in the right place at the right time when an r154 is for sale. Rear sump and jz to r154 bellhousings are MONEY so if you can find a cheaper option like running a w58 and getting fab done to make a custom sump/pickup you can save there. Personally the w58 gets a bad rep because people are trying to hook hard making 400+whp, flat shifting and generally not caring to put good gear oil in them or atleast doing a small rebuild. They are cheap and plentiful.
I wont go into detail but YOU decide the price for this swap. There is no average cost. Most overpay. I'll tell you that much.
Dont be in a hurry! TAKE YOUR TIME! You mentioned drifting. Getting a swap done is half the battle. You still have to go out there, break stuff, waste gas, tires, etc..... Drifting anything is expensive. Doesn't matter if you're bone stock or built.
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