Tegheim - Home made 4 Rotor Wolvo project
10-27-11, 02:44 PM
#401
20b Tinkerer
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So if you're gonna do the rotors, might as well redo the plates. It's only a little bit more material =D Out of curiosity, which alloy did you choose for the rotor body? And steel for the rotor side plates?
10-27-11, 02:55 PM
#402
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I will come back later with the material-choice. But there will be pics as soon as there is something to show! Have some hours left with CADs.
The E-shaft will go for the first grinding next friday I hope!
The E-shaft will go for the first grinding next friday I hope!
10-27-11, 07:38 PM
#404
interesting idea, i haven't thought about how to CNC a rotor that way even though it would make things much simpler.. i'd just be worried about the seal grooves, they will need some sort of liner.
i also wouldn't toss them at the 4 rotor to start with, use them in a simple 2 rotor test bed before possibly trashing the 4 rotor shaft.
i also wouldn't toss them at the 4 rotor to start with, use them in a simple 2 rotor test bed before possibly trashing the 4 rotor shaft.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 10-27-11 at 07:41 PM.
10-27-11, 11:54 PM
#406
Senior Member
Thread Starter
interesting idea, i haven't thought about how to CNC a rotor that way even though it would make things much simpler.. i'd just be worried about the seal grooves, they will need some sort of liner.
i also wouldn't toss them at the 4 rotor to start with, use them in a simple 2 rotor test bed before possibly trashing the 4 rotor shaft.
i also wouldn't toss them at the 4 rotor to start with, use them in a simple 2 rotor test bed before possibly trashing the 4 rotor shaft.
Actually I will test them in a 2rotor first, but it's not like me to test things first. Try, and hope I do it right direct :S
10-28-11, 01:16 PM
#407
11-03-11, 07:15 AM
#413
^ I like the steel plan. Alloy steel is much stronger than the oem cast iron, so you can make the profiles thinner and lighter. Plus it is cheaper than Al, transfers less heat, and you don't have to worry about seal grooves deforming.
I am planning to make mine out of steel once my new project gets off the ground. One thing I will also be doing is adding additional internal stiffeners to reinforce the face of the rotor.
Are you making these in two pieces and welding them together, or are you going to try to make them from one single block?
I am planning to make mine out of steel once my new project gets off the ground. One thing I will also be doing is adding additional internal stiffeners to reinforce the face of the rotor.
Are you making these in two pieces and welding them together, or are you going to try to make them from one single block?
11-03-11, 12:16 PM
#414
^ I like the steel plan. Alloy steel is much stronger than the oem cast iron, so you can make the profiles thinner and lighter. Plus it is cheaper than Al, transfers less heat, and you don't have to worry about seal grooves deforming.
I am planning to make mine out of steel once my new project gets off the ground. One thing I will also be doing is adding additional internal stiffeners to reinforce the face of the rotor.
Are you making these in two pieces and welding them together, or are you going to try to make them from one single block?
I am planning to make mine out of steel once my new project gets off the ground. One thing I will also be doing is adding additional internal stiffeners to reinforce the face of the rotor.
Are you making these in two pieces and welding them together, or are you going to try to make them from one single block?
11-03-11, 12:48 PM
#415
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Me and Gusfd3s are working late on these rotors in SolidWorks. Every little weight we can find goes away, but still it needs to be strong.
We are going to use the 3-piece design as it looks right now.
We also have some other ideas, but we wait to show it.
Very much time goes to SolidWorks though
We are going to use the 3-piece design as it looks right now.
We also have some other ideas, but we wait to show it.
Very much time goes to SolidWorks though
11-03-11, 12:59 PM
#416
tagheim, this past weekend I had a chance to see a 12 rotor and talk to the man who created the project. I heard 12rotor.com and mazda trix discussing how much of the rotor is filled with oil durring rotation. I heard them talking about how the rotor is completely full of oil.. now that got me thinking.. of rotation weight etc.. What if there were a way to come up with small bleed offs in the correct locations on the rotor so that oil would be delivered to necessary locations...thus eliminating the OMP and the need to premix oil with gas? it' was just a thought...but thought I'd see what you thought about it.
- Ap
- Ap
11-03-11, 01:04 PM
#417
i'm not sure i agree that it is completely full of oil, i have been thinking about it but perhaps they have actually set up a test bench to find out. none of the balancing shops have spoken up in the other thread as to how they come up with rotor weight for balancing the rotating assembly. if they are not using the right equations then they are imbalancing the assembly versus balancing it.. rotors i can assume should hold about 16 ounces of fluid which would = almost 10% of their mass weight.
the fact that the rotor has a sloshing motion and not just centrifugal would have me think half of the fluid is escaping with each swing.
the fact that the rotor has a sloshing motion and not just centrifugal would have me think half of the fluid is escaping with each swing.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-03-11 at 01:06 PM.
11-03-11, 01:21 PM
#418
Gold Wheels FTW
tagheim, this past weekend I had a chance to see a 12 rotor and talk to the man who created the project. I heard 12rotor.com and mazda trix discussing how much of the rotor is filled with oil durring rotation. I heard them talking about how the rotor is completely full of oil.. now that got me thinking.. of rotation weight etc.. What if there were a way to come up with small bleed offs in the correct locations on the rotor so that oil would be delivered to necessary locations...thus eliminating the OMP and the need to premix oil with gas? it' was just a thought...but thought I'd see what you thought about it.
- Ap
- Ap
I do like the idea though... just have to be completely certain that the centripetal feeders didn't get clogged, and I'm not sure how you could ensure that.
I would think you could have the oil seeping out from under the apex seal, or a port next the seal groove. Engine oil weight would be even more important too. Oil too thin and you'd have too much oil injecting.
... interesting thing to think about anyway.
11-03-11, 01:38 PM
#419
rotating compression in the chambers is also far higher than the pressure of gravity pushing the oil towards the extremeties. you'd wind up with compression in the crankcase, not oil in the combustion chamber. as mentioned, they would carbon up in a heartbeat also unless they too, had some sort of rotary valve injection method to self clean the ports.
rotating compression gets higher with increased revvs, not so much with the oil pressure but the forces applied to the inside would also go up. how close those 2 are in relation is very difficult to even guess(mathemetician anyone?).
rotating compression gets higher with increased revvs, not so much with the oil pressure but the forces applied to the inside would also go up. how close those 2 are in relation is very difficult to even guess(mathemetician anyone?).
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-03-11 at 01:41 PM.
11-03-11, 03:48 PM
#420
I would think that since it's a similar idea to a carburetor in that it's gravity controlled, you would have to be very careful about your channels getting plugged with sludge etc. with the external omp / oil injectors, you don't have to gut the motors to address oiling.
I do like the idea though... just have to be completely certain that the centripetal feeders didn't get clogged, and I'm not sure how you could ensure that.
I would think you could have the oil seeping out from under the apex seal, or a port next the seal groove. Engine oil weight would be even more important too. Oil too thin and you'd have too much oil injecting.
... interesting thing to think about anyway.
I do like the idea though... just have to be completely certain that the centripetal feeders didn't get clogged, and I'm not sure how you could ensure that.
I would think you could have the oil seeping out from under the apex seal, or a port next the seal groove. Engine oil weight would be even more important too. Oil too thin and you'd have too much oil injecting.
... interesting thing to think about anyway.
11-04-11, 11:48 AM
#421
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Today the E-shaft was left to it first grinding-session. Feels strange
I should add that I am not entirely alone in this with billet rotors.
My friend Gustav and I often get yelled at for talking more with each other, then our partner's when we are sitting with headsets and drawing SolidWorks at night
We have our visions. I want my 4rotor, and Gustav wants his "tired" 770hk 13B will go a bit better
I should add that I am not entirely alone in this with billet rotors.
My friend Gustav and I often get yelled at for talking more with each other, then our partner's when we are sitting with headsets and drawing SolidWorks at night
We have our visions. I want my 4rotor, and Gustav wants his "tired" 770hk 13B will go a bit better
11-04-11, 12:50 PM
#423
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Very nice work! Have you considered using older rotor housings with the water seal grooves in the rotor housings, and just machining the irons flat?
11-04-11, 01:19 PM
#424
the irons will be aluminum with steel inserts (will be replaceable if worn out), this will also make it possible to access almost all passages. some will still have to be drilled... there is alot of work left on them if they are going to be reality :-)
