gerald m

[QUOTE=bumpstart;10741356]ignition is working very well ,, congrats

Thanks Bumpstart you have been a big help , when I get the carbs and intake installed then maybe I can play with the ignition a bit more .. One thing I have been pondering on is if the two wires on the dizzy leading pick-up are reversed does it change the degrees that the coils fire at.
? I done a bit of reading on the Weber and I think it might be a good go I just need to try get a good buy on it .. My 12v lighter sized compressor opens my 6 ports to full open in 2.5 seconds after activation .. so I think that should make a nice smooth transition with a adjustable switch on the throttle .. Chainreaction I think you and your son are doing great with your little car, like I said before , soon they won't be bitchin about how loud it is but how hard it is to outdo , nobody does that **** up here in Saskatchewan I wish there was more interest ,.. Mikeric yea I wear ear plugs there is no way anyone can be close to it and not have them in .. I might be crazy but I'm not stupid I have ran big block V8's for years right off the headers and nothing compares to the energy coming out the exhaust ports on a rotary,I love it ( I guess that is why the turbo is far more used than a compressor ), not that I know much about either one ..

bumpstart

if you reverse the pickups the timing will shift,, it can be weak and erratic at low speeds and it will retard timing as revs increase
( when around the right way they have a natural advance by a few degrees )

be sure both igniters are wired the same way around and check both with the timing light to see if they line up to the mark when the dizzy is in its normal position
( both flash same time due to wastespark trigger setup )


as for the weber,, be aware it will amount to chucking your LIM and the staged aux throttle
the power loss under 2.5 K is an accepted compromise for the advantages they ,, and that short runner siamesed inlet manifold they fit on, bring in the mid and top end
i am of the opinion already that you will be traction limited away from the line and that losing the bottom end by having open aux's
will cost you nothing and make the bike easier to bring out of the hole

at any rate ,, 2.5 secs to full aux flow may just be an eternity when you add how many gear changes there will be

gerald m

at any rate ,, 2.5 secs to full aux flow may just be an eternity when you add how many gear changes there will be[/QUOTE]
That is the way I am thinking it , When things are done with the cross mount , In 1 sec or a bit more the engine should be at full revs and by 2.5 to 3.5 sec the ride will be half over so I hope by then the ports are full open and giving all the fuel it can use .. It will have a sno- mo clutch much the same idea as Chainreaction uses on his little sand drag car and that little bugger really goes .. I saw one pic of his where the teeth on the primary sprocket were not just bent over but ripped right off right down to the hub
The bike will have an aggressive 12 or 14 inch tire on it so it should launch like a rocket . And the end result I HOPE will be a machine that needs to be controlled for max traction not just ran wide open .
I plan on getting the intake that fits the carb that I buy so I will be bolting on right down to the intake ports if that's what you mean..

chainreaction

Hey Gerald. Wanted to give you an update on what we've been achieving this year with Chainreaction.

Best numbers last year: 4.711, 1.9 60', 72.53 mph
Best numbers this year, so far: 4.596 ET, 1.76 60', 74.92 mph

Remember that stumble I have been struggling with when we hit the throttle off the line? At the last race I was standing and staring at the motor between rounds and made a stunning discovery. Last year when I put the nitrous system on the car, I never re-installed the fuel pressure regulator! I have been running 11-12 PSI fuel pressure. When we hit WOT there was no fuel until it bled off enough pressure for the needle to free up and allow fuel to flow. We just finished re-plumbing the entire fuel system and what a difference in throttle response.

This was last weekend. The video does not show the stumble very good, but you can see about 20' out when Jordan hits the nitrous.

gerald m

Good to hear you and Jordan are making headway with the little car ( Is he looking for more go yet or is he still content ).. I am beginning to think that a lot of problems are related to low fuel pressure .. I had the same problem with the dragon ,, I finally got it running fair but there is just not enough fuel when it needs it the most .. and believe me it needs fuel .. I honestly don;t think I have ever had a engine burn as much fuel as the dragon , It burns 4 L. just for warm up and a quick blast . but I need a better fuel system right from pump to intake to carb then things will be different .. This is my busy season , by the time I get back to my machine the season will be over but it has been a good learning experience . I guess it's time to start over and get the cross mount frame started or I will run out of time for next year .. Actually I think just getting the the dragon running and moving with the direct fire ignition working good was a marvel in its own and a ton of fun .
Thanks for the update , I know there are a few guys that read my thread that are watching to see how you guys make out , so please do keep us updated ..
Do you have any on board vids of the clutch working going down the track ? I would be very interested in seeing where the pulleys are from just after leaving the line , to just before nitrous to just after and then close to the end of the track .. Not much to ask hey Buy the way I can see the nitrous change the way the tires are throwing dirt but I can.t see the sputter if you run it in slow frame you can see the dirt fin change , Have a good one .. Gerald

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

gerald, sounds like one of the low speed jets in the holley is plugged up with some crap. try watching down the throats and see if any of the venturis just dribbling fuel instead of supplying a decent proper amount. you can figure out which is the culprit by spraying a little carb cleaner into each primary and see which causes the engine to severely stumble, that is your one good side of the carb so check the other half.

it just sounds like it's not hitting on the whole engine down low, once you get into the accelerator pump and main jets it clears up, telling me it sounds like a simple carb issue.

chainreaction

Here's a video from directly behind the car at yesterdays race. The new fuel pressure regulator totally eliminated the stumble. We fattened up the fuel side of the nitrous before this pass. You can hear and see it sputter for a fraction of a second as he hit the button, then run clean the rest of the pass. I'm seriously thinking about putting the Holley back on for the next race. It always ran strong on that carb before we pit the nitrous on (and left off the pressure regulator!) We had too much air in the tires as well and you can see it spinning on top. (7 lbs vs our usual 4.5 lbs.) This pass was a 4.736 at 68.81 mph. Previous pass was a 4.737 at 68.81 mph and the next pass was a 4.711 at 68.81 mph.
I tried taping the clutch with my Go-pro video and the vibration made it useless...

gerald m

[QUOTE=Karack;10801172]gerald, sounds like one of the low speed jets in the holley is plugged up with some crap. try watching down the throats and see if any of the venturis just dribbling fuel instead of supplying a decent proper amount. you can figure out which is the culprit by spraying a little carb cleaner into each primary and see which causes the engine to severely stumble, that is your one good side of the carb so check the other half.

Karack yea I agree I thought it was ignition at first but the spark is very strong , I think the biggest problem is the carb and my ( way left of centre system ) is just to small to provide the amount of air that the little engine needs but as soon as I get some time I am going to go at it and see if I can get it to give me a couple more rips before I take it apart . since I got the ignition working I have not had to deflood at all it just starts right up as many times in a row as you want cold or warm and it always needs 2 or 3 good squirts of fuel to get it to fire . It runs better every time I work on it I just need a little more time on it .. It sure don't tune like a piston engine but I'm getting there

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

even the hitachi 13B carbs as well as the nikkis had similar issues. i suppose it is just less noticable in piston engines because the cylinders require less to run semi decent and the bores are banked or completely mix into a dynamic chamber before entering the engines.

i had a '77 REPU with a clogged low speed air bleed jet a few weeks back that i had rebuilt several years ago, the truck only sees a few hundred miles a year but just having sat for periods of time the carb accumulated crap already. i sprayed some carb cleaner down the venturis and into the float bowl vents then blew into the venturis with compressed air and voila! unstuck jets, been weeks and i haven't heard back from him.

but looking down the throats with the engine running you could obviously tell one side was almost bone dry where the other had a constant stream of fuel pouring in.

gerald m

Yea I can hear it flutter a bit about 20 ft out .. I been thinking about a weber set up but I really do like the holley and they are simple compared to some of the stuff out there and a litle cheaperbut no matter how I look at it there will still be close to 1000 bucks for a intake and carb , I don't have a problem buying a used intake but I am a bit afraid of some of the crap that is for sale when it comes to a good carb . not sure what to do yet . I need to look at different types of tires also . most of the places around here run grass drags so I am going to need something with a very aggressive lug and I don't think I can go with to soft of a tire I need something that will cut into the turf like a tractor tread but also something that will take some RPM's . My idea with the bike is to cut a bit of a groove in the dirt to try to keep the back end going straight , I know if the tire is rounded a bit on the face they seem to want to slide away .

chainreaction

Tried the Holley again on Saturday. Car fell on it's face, 4.73 at 68.8 mph. Swapped back to the smaller Edelbrock carb between rounds. Every pass the rest of the day was a 4.68 at 73.31 mph. Last pass was a 4.681 on a 4.680 dial-in.
Sunday, didn't change a thing. Ran 4.63, 4.61, 4.70 (got in another cars rut) 4.61. Again all at 73 mph.... great way to end the racing season.

gerald m

Never had a Edelbrock but by your times even the lower ones shows me that on my machine if I'm using the 5 and 6 ports it looks like they would need to be open right around where I was thinking ( around 2 to 2.5 seconds from throttle activation .. so if i use them my little pump will have them full open 1.5 to 2 seconds after throttle activation , not sure if they are even necessary .. That will be interesting when I get to that point .. In all honesty if it wasn't for all the extra components I would go back to injection . I have been thinking about continuous injection , that would be a simple thing to do with these little engines .. No electrical no drivers of any kind .. they work the very same as an older type diesel rack .. just straight 80 to 90 pounds fuel pressure .. The 6 cylinder type would be perfect for the 6 port .. one for each port and the 5 and 6 could be run from 2 12 volt control valves all I would need to do is do a little milling and could maybe even fit them right back in the same injector holes I have a 4 cyl controller that would maybe work to from a Saab that I have I think I could make my bike go like stink with that type of set up .. Any comments on the subject are welcome ..

gerald m

I got the little bike a few years back from a guy who just could not get it to run . He told me he had been trying for years and could never get it to do more than just fire once in a while.
I totally dismantled the little bike every bolt and screw came out of every piece and was either cleaned or repaired if necessary . The engine had little compression so when I took the head off I discovered it had been overheated more than once. The fins on the cylinder were plugged (full of baked on mud)resulting in the piston melting down and scoring the cylinder.
The bike was very rusty coming from British Columbia so I totally stripped every part with Sirca 1898 paint stripper ,bought a stand up model cabinet sand blaster 4 different bags of glass beads and went to work . The crushed glass was to harsh so I went to the beads 30-60 did all the prep work then went to 100-170 for the aluminum wheel hubs , engine rusty pulleys and so on . ( I will never use sand for blasting again after using the glass beads )
The top end of the 50 cc engine was ruined except for the head which was perfect so instead of the 50 cc I went of course to a 70 cc sleeve kit that came with everything I needed to reassemble the little engine so it should rip right along .
What I want the little bike for is to take it with me when I race the dragon just to putt around with 9From one extreme to the other . Humph I wonder if that is considered off center
I almost got the little bugger back together it won't belong before start up .

bumpstart

nice one gerald, have a softspot for a french motebecaine peddle start moped and its unusuall CVT transmision, will get another one day and do a resto
but ,, we are all waiting on updates for the dirt bike,, dont think 70 cc of 2 stroke madness is going to break records

gerald m

A few more pics

gerald m

Going back together

gerald m

Hey bumpstart good to see you , your looking a little pale .. My bike - well I did get it running pretty good , idled right down , lots of engine response and starts like nothing ( I am really happy with the ignition it was worth every bit of the doing ). It runs a fair bit different when a bit of a load hits it . The Auto trans as everyone knows is a piece and only seems to work when it has a notion but I am done with it anyway .
I have been fighting with so many ideas in my head that I haven't made a solid decision on what to do with the fuel end of things . The only time I have fuel pooling is on deceleration and it doesn't seem to bother even then . There is so much air going through that thing it just evaporates. My air box is full of nice vapor on acceleration and I can't see anything at all at idle just air . I think i mentioned not long after fire up before my DF ignition , the dragon kinda burped and backfired and blew those plexi- ends all to hell . I found some pieces across the street in my neighbors driveway. So I said to myself , self I said no more using that **** so I used 1/2 inch puck board it's softer and won't shatter . ( I saw what I wanted to see in there anyway ) so If I do anything I will maybe build short tubes from the LIM to a plate to mount the 500 on and work it from there . I really am happy the way my engine turned out I think all I need to do is tinker with it . Build a bigger cooling system so I can let that baby run longer and make more noise
What I need now is a good frame to cross mount my engine to, and some how build a front engine mount , I also need to save part of the trans housing for the starter . I have a diagram in my thread somewhere from chainreaction for a rear mount . The frame will be wider so maybe I can use the left engine mount out in front to help make it rigid that will take the strain off either end . I joined a forum on drag bikes there are some pretty good frame ideas there .. They have some beautiful stage clutches there to but the ******* are worth more than I am dead .
So I guess it is mainly intake and frame , the jack shafts and stuff are easy anybody could do that but I want to cut the 1 inch bore hubs to 1.5 and then shove a broach through a few times get the key-way nice an even and I should have a strong shaft that won't break with a floating secondary clutch hub . I guess I need to build the rear wheel hub . the brake will be a disc on the jack shaft .. I still think a rear brake won't do much , the machine will slow down almost good enough just with the drive ,, Remember it works the same way slowing down until it get below activation rpm ( there will be a lot of drag there I think ) Wow I just innocently ate a whole friggin box of macaroons with out even noticing it until I tipped the box up and nothing left and 2 pop .Oink! .. Well it's off to my sons tomorrow for early supper then xmas to my moms for dinner .. Well Merry Christmas Bumpstart and all that have helped me through the last year It's been a real slice . You too Karack you grouchy old bear I proud to know you guys its been a ton of fun . Have a good one .

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

that's what my GF calls me, just don't try and slip into bed with me!

nice work on the ped. one of the first things i ever owned was a vespa "ciao" pedal bike, rode it to school for many years.

bumpstart

gerald, i take my cap off to all your efforts , and look forwards to all your updates

merry christmas , stay safe

regards
Paul

gerald m

Well Christmas day in south central Saskatchewan was +6 so I went out to give the dragon one more fireup .. every time I started the engine the carb needed to be adjusted , checked all kinds of little things . reset the float 3 times checked fuel flow , everything I could think of . Finally removed the fuel line from the carb again checked flow it seemed ok running the fuel into a can . I put my finger part way over the hose and the pump started to make a sound like it was pumping fuel when under a bit of pressure sounded good but the dam thing quit pumping to just a few drops every time I partially blocked off the fuel hose ( so I am sure when it goes through the tiny seat hole it quits pumping ).. The pump is suppose to be 3 to 5 psi don't know how much flow it is suppose to have but it has nothing as soon as there is any resistance the pump quits pumping .. It was a new pump but I will chuck it and get something better .. I'm hoping that this will solve some or all of my fuel issues .. Happy day .. I have another one the same on my forklift and it pumps like crazy so it must be just another faulty mass produced piece of **** . That is 2 different pumps in a little more that a year that were junk and they were mid range in price not the cheapest stuff they had .. A 4 liter douche bag on the handle bars would work better ..

Nexxussian

Gerald, I forget is your pump solid mounted, or do you have some kind of rubber mount for it?

It could be that the rotary puts out a harmonic that is gutting your particular pump.

Don't know how likely that is, but you mention having one in a forklift for a while, any forklift I've been around tends to have lower frequency (if higher amplitude) vibrations than a rotary, perhaps that's what the pump is designed for?

Nexxussian

Oh yeah, I hope you all had a merry Christmas, and you all have a happy new year.

gerald m

Hi Erik been a while .. I think the pump is just crap . I have it mounted on rubber hanger just because it came with the pump , so it is isolated ..
I think this thing has been giving problems right from the get go . I checked for fuel flow a few times but I never checked for flow when making pressure ( If it is downsized half the size of the outlet ( which is a way bigger than the needle seat hole ) it almost seems to bypass and start pumping bubbles .. I have a booster pump that will deliver a health flow under pressure it may require a reg not sure .. Healthy new year Gerald m

gerald m

Finally got the little bike finished now it's back to the Dragon

gerald m

Bought 60 ft. of 1.125 HREW. for the frame I know 60 ft. is more than I SHOULD NEED but by the time I get done screwing around and chewing up pieces practicing I might have enough .. A few ideas are starting to flow for the frame , now I need to know what size tire to use ..Ok so the auto trans is out now should I use a standard flywheel for the weight ? I'm thinking I need the flywheel for the inertia and if I use one can I just bolt it on and be ok ? Lets not get to technical because my brain just turns into a cloudy fart ( I have one off another 13b 6 port )http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...g/IMG_0012.jpg I want to end up with basically what chainreaction has done in the link and then the sno clutch will go on that stub with threaded inside . I have the same flywheel as in the pic on this other engine . It.s nice to get started again , this one will be a keeper..
Another thing chain reaction if you are in on this thread can you pop up a couple piccs of how did you attach the engine mounts and what and how and did you use the stock mount that would go to the front of the car ?? I think I will use both stock mounts if I can and then just use the end plates to stiffen the engine up .. thanks Gerald m .