7hevin

Does Walter Froede really deserve the credit for the rotary engine as we know it,in its curent form ?you're thoughts

Icemark

Frode with Frankenberger only helped refine the design (and actually Frankenberger did a lot more on that end than Frode ever did. Of course Hoeppener did more than either Frode or Frankenberger on taking the compressor design to a real engine. But that unit hardly is modern or similar to today's designs as it used a stationary center shaft and intake through that shaft.

Remember Frode and his team only later worked on a single rotor design (KKM125 and later KKM250) AND went a different direction than what Wankle originally intended

As far as the rotary engine in its current form, that would be Mazda.

7hevin

Icemark,thank you for clearing that up.from what I have read it was Froedes design idea for the stationary housing with the rotors and eccentric inside,btw my information comes from a book called *wankel rotary engine,a history* but I've also read that this book was inacurate so I may be missinformed.

ruddyrid

iTrader: (8)

wow, i didnt know the beginnings of the rotary were so complex

rotarymunky

Dr. Felix Wankel,in the 1920s I think,just wiki felix wankel.

7hevin

From what I've read wankels design was too complicated,and he*wakel* actually hated froedes design.

Icemark

Yep that's true. Wankel's original design was much more elegant and similar to a Turbine in operation. Frode's team's modifications/design is more similar to what we have today, but still a different direction. Wankel hated the loss of both the smoothness and turbine like operation, that Frodes team's design came up with, with their single rotor power plants. Much of the smoothness came back with the Mercedes and Mazda multi-rotor designs (although it should be noted that Mercedes much like GM was not able to make a two rotor operate smoothly and much preferred 3 and 4 rotor designs).

Wankels original designs (for example) used spark plugs and intake/exhaust on the "rotor" and the engine housing turned, not the rotor... again much more like a Turbine

If we wanted to be entirely accurate, the current rotary engine design would be like that of the TV. Where many people helped form what is around today.

And using that TV analogy, Wankel designed and drew out what was to be Radio, which Hoeppener actually built, and Frankenberger funded and bought. The next step would be taking that design and adding video too it which Froede did and with his engineers they got a little round 5 inch screen that broke down all the time, but then the Mazda engineers made it in color, with a nice 13 inch and larger screens, figured out how to change channels, and made it reliable and affordable for everyone.

7hevin

Icemark,you are 100% correct,thanks for the info,,,,so would it be completely erronious to to call this particuler version of the engine the Walter Froede engine,,,,,,,,BTW,do you have any thoughts on my other thread *better fuell economy* very interested in hearing you're ideas.

Icemark

No, because Froede again was taking Wankels design and trying to improve it. Another analogy would be using piston engines. Think of Wankels original design as a pushrod engine, and Froedes team's version as a OHC engine and Mazda's design as a DOHC Miller Cycle engine.

Wankels design really lead the way, with intake and exhaust all controlled by placement of the rotor to the housing. That is the key there.

Posted in there.

7hevin

A radial piston engine and an otto cycle piston engine both have pistons but work in different ways,so would this be a correct comparison to Wankels design and froedes design?they both use rotors but get the work done in different ways.so my question is,is there enough of a difference for froedes engine to to have its own classification and therfore its own name?the
*Walter Froede*engine.

Donohu40

I worked with a guy that said his great uncle or something helped wankel come up with the design or something to that extent and he got screwed one way or another and never got any credit for the work he did. I don't know how much I believe him but he did have an awesome framed blueprint of a rotary motor design that was dated back in the 20's or something.

That was all before I even had an RX. Wish I asked him what his name was.