New owner of a non working 88 Rx7 TII and needing help!
07-14-12, 07:31 PM
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New owner of a non working 88 Rx7 TII and needing help!
I recently moved back down Orlando, FL from SC after purchasing a non working 88 Rx7 TII for what seemed like an incredible deal. The previous owner indicated that he traced the problem to the fuel system. So, that is where I started my search.
The first thing I checked to see if the fuel pump was operational. I pulled the old on out and connected the fuel pump terminal directly to the battery to see if it would turn on. Well it did not. So, I purchased a new fuel pump and installed it into the fuel tank. I connected the fuel pump wire harness and turned the ignition on the prime the fuel system, but I did not hear the fuel pump turn on. I then ran a wire from the positive end of the battery to the positive terminal of the fuel pump and ran a ground wire from the fuel pump ground terminal to the chassis. The fuel pump then runs fine.
So, I know that there is a problem with the fuel pump wiring somewhere!
Now, that I have the fuel pump hardwired to the battery, I checked the fuel pump discharge to see if it was pumping fuel out of the tank, which it was. I also check the fuel line return back to the tank to see if fuel was going through the complete fuel system, which it was. With the fuel pump hardwired I managed to start the engine for about 10 seconds. During the ten seconds I attempted to rev the engine which it would only rev up to about 3500rpm and than the engine loses power and drops revs. I did this twice and shut the engine off because there was a lot of smoke coming from the tail pipes and it kept back firing.
The next day, I attempted to start the car in the same manner and no luck. Since then I check the spark plugs wires to see if they were connected correctly, which they were not. It originally had both leading wire connected to the top and bottom spark plugs on the front rotor and both trailing wires connected to the top and bottom spark plugs on the rear rotor. That issue has been fixed. I checked the leading and the trailing ignition coils to see if they were producing a spark which they all are. I check all fuses in the engine compartment and in the passenger compartment, they were all good. I also checked the air flow meter underneath the air filter and it seems to be in working condition as well.
Can anyone please give me any tips on what other items that I can check? Thanks
The first thing I checked to see if the fuel pump was operational. I pulled the old on out and connected the fuel pump terminal directly to the battery to see if it would turn on. Well it did not. So, I purchased a new fuel pump and installed it into the fuel tank. I connected the fuel pump wire harness and turned the ignition on the prime the fuel system, but I did not hear the fuel pump turn on. I then ran a wire from the positive end of the battery to the positive terminal of the fuel pump and ran a ground wire from the fuel pump ground terminal to the chassis. The fuel pump then runs fine.
So, I know that there is a problem with the fuel pump wiring somewhere!
Now, that I have the fuel pump hardwired to the battery, I checked the fuel pump discharge to see if it was pumping fuel out of the tank, which it was. I also check the fuel line return back to the tank to see if fuel was going through the complete fuel system, which it was. With the fuel pump hardwired I managed to start the engine for about 10 seconds. During the ten seconds I attempted to rev the engine which it would only rev up to about 3500rpm and than the engine loses power and drops revs. I did this twice and shut the engine off because there was a lot of smoke coming from the tail pipes and it kept back firing.
The next day, I attempted to start the car in the same manner and no luck. Since then I check the spark plugs wires to see if they were connected correctly, which they were not. It originally had both leading wire connected to the top and bottom spark plugs on the front rotor and both trailing wires connected to the top and bottom spark plugs on the rear rotor. That issue has been fixed. I checked the leading and the trailing ignition coils to see if they were producing a spark which they all are. I check all fuses in the engine compartment and in the passenger compartment, they were all good. I also checked the air flow meter underneath the air filter and it seems to be in working condition as well.
Can anyone please give me any tips on what other items that I can check? Thanks
07-15-12, 10:09 AM
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The fuel pump does not prime when the key is turned to IGN. The pump only runs while the engine is cranking and then while the AFM is being sucked open by engine vacuum. Otherwise, the pump is off. You can force the pump to run anytime the key is set to IGN by jumping the yellow test connector on the passenger shock tower.
Has this car been sitting for a while? If so, all injectors will need to be serviced professionally and properly cleaned.
Is the AFM plugged in?
Make sure the CAS is stabbed correctly.
The Factory Service Manuals for all years of RX-7 (and many other rotary cars) can be downloaded for free here: http://foxed.ca/foxed/index.php?page=rx7manual . They contain all common service information information and more, and are an essential tool for any sort of service work that needs to be performed on these cars.
Additionally, the Haynes service manual for the 1986 thru 1991 RX-7 (both turbo and NA) can be found at most local auto parts stores or purchased from any good bookstore (ISBN number 1 56392 007 7). It is only about $25 and is a great quick reference for things like this. Not only does it contain most of the information in the FSM condensed into an easy to read format, but it includes full wiring diagrams as well.
These manuals will answer 99% of service related questions for the car and if you intend to do your own repair work, you will need at least one of them. Preferably both, since the FSM is a free download. The Haynes is a good quick reference covering 99% of questions, while the FSMs show complete and detailed procedures.
Has this car been sitting for a while? If so, all injectors will need to be serviced professionally and properly cleaned.
Is the AFM plugged in?
Make sure the CAS is stabbed correctly.
The Factory Service Manuals for all years of RX-7 (and many other rotary cars) can be downloaded for free here: http://foxed.ca/foxed/index.php?page=rx7manual . They contain all common service information information and more, and are an essential tool for any sort of service work that needs to be performed on these cars.
Additionally, the Haynes service manual for the 1986 thru 1991 RX-7 (both turbo and NA) can be found at most local auto parts stores or purchased from any good bookstore (ISBN number 1 56392 007 7). It is only about $25 and is a great quick reference for things like this. Not only does it contain most of the information in the FSM condensed into an easy to read format, but it includes full wiring diagrams as well.
These manuals will answer 99% of service related questions for the car and if you intend to do your own repair work, you will need at least one of them. Preferably both, since the FSM is a free download. The Haynes is a good quick reference covering 99% of questions, while the FSMs show complete and detailed procedures.
07-16-12, 10:48 AM
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I don't know how long it sat for but you should not try to run it with the old gas that is in the tank. That alone could be causing some of your issues. Injectors should be pulled and sent off to be cleaned and flow tested. We had a bad MAF that was causing similiar issues. May not be that but it's worth checking. Find a friend with a MAF like yours that's on a running car and see if that makes a difference. Good luck!
07-16-12, 12:41 PM
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The fuel pump does not prime when the key is turned to IGN. The pump only runs while the engine is cranking and then while the AFM is being sucked open by engine vacuum. Otherwise, the pump is off. You can force the pump to run anytime the key is set to IGN by jumping the yellow test connector on the passenger shock tower.
Has this car been sitting for a while? If so, all injectors will need to be serviced professionally and properly cleaned.
Is the AFM plugged in?
Make sure the CAS is stabbed correctly.
The Factory Service Manuals for all years of RX-7 (and many other rotary cars) can be downloaded for free here: Foxed.ca - Mazda RX-7 Manuals . They contain all common service information information and more, and are an essential tool for any sort of service work that needs to be performed on these cars.
Additionally, the Haynes service manual for the 1986 thru 1991 RX-7 (both turbo and NA) can be found at most local auto parts stores or purchased from any good bookstore (ISBN number 1 56392 007 7). It is only about $25 and is a great quick reference for things like this. Not only does it contain most of the information in the FSM condensed into an easy to read format, but it includes full wiring diagrams as well.
These manuals will answer 99% of service related questions for the car and if you intend to do your own repair work, you will need at least one of them. Preferably both, since the FSM is a free download. The Haynes is a good quick reference covering 99% of questions, while the FSMs show complete and detailed procedures.
Has this car been sitting for a while? If so, all injectors will need to be serviced professionally and properly cleaned.
Is the AFM plugged in?
Make sure the CAS is stabbed correctly.
The Factory Service Manuals for all years of RX-7 (and many other rotary cars) can be downloaded for free here: Foxed.ca - Mazda RX-7 Manuals . They contain all common service information information and more, and are an essential tool for any sort of service work that needs to be performed on these cars.
Additionally, the Haynes service manual for the 1986 thru 1991 RX-7 (both turbo and NA) can be found at most local auto parts stores or purchased from any good bookstore (ISBN number 1 56392 007 7). It is only about $25 and is a great quick reference for things like this. Not only does it contain most of the information in the FSM condensed into an easy to read format, but it includes full wiring diagrams as well.
These manuals will answer 99% of service related questions for the car and if you intend to do your own repair work, you will need at least one of them. Preferably both, since the FSM is a free download. The Haynes is a good quick reference covering 99% of questions, while the FSMs show complete and detailed procedures.
The car was sitting in the previous owner garage but I do not know for how long it was sitting there for. Is there a certain prefered shop that performs good maintanence on RX7 fuel injectors?
I took the AFM completely out in order to check all the resistances just as the FSM indicates. It seemed to be good so I reinstalled it. I guess the connecting plug could be something simple to over look, but I will check the connection.
I am not sure what you mean when you say CAS. What does that stand for?
I did download the FSM for my RX7 last week. I also just order the Haynes repair manual off of amazon based on your suggestion. Thanks.
07-16-12, 12:45 PM
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I don't know how long it sat for but you should not try to run it with the old gas that is in the tank. That alone could be causing some of your issues. Injectors should be pulled and sent off to be cleaned and flow tested. We had a bad MAF that was causing similiar issues. May not be that but it's worth checking. Find a friend with a MAF like yours that's on a running car and see if that makes a difference. Good luck!
07-16-12, 03:50 PM
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Satch, I have been reading the below thread about someone else that had a similar problem to me.
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...-help-1001897/
So far I have checked eveything that you indicated to check.
"Check the Black/Yellow wire at the leading coil for voltage w/key to on. Check the Green check connector by the leading coil that has three wires where two are Yellow based and one is Black/White as the B/W wire should also have battery voltage w/key to on."
Both wires had bettery voltage to them.
Check the EGI fuse in the Engine fuse box. Also, turn the key to on and prove that the ignition switch is working properly. If the key is to on and the wipers or turn signals work then that proves the ignition switch is powered properly. Also check to see if the Main Relay clicks w/key to on. If it doesn't then check the interior fuse box where the 15 amp Engine fuse resides to see if it is blown or not.
All fuses in the engine bay and passenger compartment has been checked. Only the slow speed setting on my wipers work, the intermitten and the fast setting do not work. All turn signals work.
But does the Main Relay click w/key to on as you didn't mention this. If it does not then disconnect the two wire plug to the relay and check for voltage w/key to on at the Black/White wire. And something else you didn't make clear is does the engine turn over or not when trying to start the car. If the car turns over and the relay clecks w/key to on then you need to measure for voltage w/key to on at the four wire plug of the Main Relay as you look for battery voltage on the Black/Yellow wire and the Black/White wire.
The main relay does click. The engine does turn over when trying to start it. The Blk/Yel and Blk/Wht wire on thre four wire plug both have battery voltage on them.
At the Main Relay is a plug w/four wires. Two of these wires have constant voltage and these two wires are White/Red and White/Blue. So w/o the need for the key in the ignition, both of these wires should have battery voltage (12 volts), so check both of these wires and see what you get. And a multimeter shouldn't set you back too much as they are rather cheap and will more than pay for themselves, especially when you own an aged car. And you could use the battery to test your test light if you think it might not be working properly.
I have not checked this yet.
Also, today I did check out the spark plugs and spark plug wires as a suggestion from someone else. I did noticed that the all four spark plugs seem to have black deposits on them. Also the T1 spark plug look to have a little oil on the tip of it. Is this a sign of a bigger problem?
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...-help-1001897/
So far I have checked eveything that you indicated to check.
"Check the Black/Yellow wire at the leading coil for voltage w/key to on. Check the Green check connector by the leading coil that has three wires where two are Yellow based and one is Black/White as the B/W wire should also have battery voltage w/key to on."
Both wires had bettery voltage to them.
Check the EGI fuse in the Engine fuse box. Also, turn the key to on and prove that the ignition switch is working properly. If the key is to on and the wipers or turn signals work then that proves the ignition switch is powered properly. Also check to see if the Main Relay clicks w/key to on. If it doesn't then check the interior fuse box where the 15 amp Engine fuse resides to see if it is blown or not.
All fuses in the engine bay and passenger compartment has been checked. Only the slow speed setting on my wipers work, the intermitten and the fast setting do not work. All turn signals work.
But does the Main Relay click w/key to on as you didn't mention this. If it does not then disconnect the two wire plug to the relay and check for voltage w/key to on at the Black/White wire. And something else you didn't make clear is does the engine turn over or not when trying to start the car. If the car turns over and the relay clecks w/key to on then you need to measure for voltage w/key to on at the four wire plug of the Main Relay as you look for battery voltage on the Black/Yellow wire and the Black/White wire.
The main relay does click. The engine does turn over when trying to start it. The Blk/Yel and Blk/Wht wire on thre four wire plug both have battery voltage on them.
At the Main Relay is a plug w/four wires. Two of these wires have constant voltage and these two wires are White/Red and White/Blue. So w/o the need for the key in the ignition, both of these wires should have battery voltage (12 volts), so check both of these wires and see what you get. And a multimeter shouldn't set you back too much as they are rather cheap and will more than pay for themselves, especially when you own an aged car. And you could use the battery to test your test light if you think it might not be working properly.
I have not checked this yet.
Also, today I did check out the spark plugs and spark plug wires as a suggestion from someone else. I did noticed that the all four spark plugs seem to have black deposits on them. Also the T1 spark plug look to have a little oil on the tip of it. Is this a sign of a bigger problem?
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07-16-12, 06:04 PM
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[QUOTE=Aaron Cake;11157486]
Make sure the CAS is stabbed correctly.
QUOTE]
I don't know what you mean by stabbed correctly. But I did take the cover of the CAS off to inspect the inside. All teeth on both gears are there, 2 on the top and I think 24 on the bottom, and none of the teeth where damaged. I did crack the engine over and it the CAs turned freely with the engine.
Make sure the CAS is stabbed correctly.
QUOTE]
I don't know what you mean by stabbed correctly. But I did take the cover of the CAS off to inspect the inside. All teeth on both gears are there, 2 on the top and I think 24 on the bottom, and none of the teeth where damaged. I did crack the engine over and it the CAs turned freely with the engine.
07-17-12, 01:20 AM
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i had the same problem and it seen to be a bad connector. My car was working perfect and once in a wile no fuel in the system. The fuel pump was good the leveling as well, but the sending unit was shorting, so i replace it with a used one. now everything works good.
07-17-12, 09:00 AM
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I am not sure what you mean when you say CAS. What does that stand for?
I don't know what you mean by stabbed correctly. But I did take the cover of the CAS off to inspect the inside. All teeth on both gears are there, 2 on the top and I think 24 on the bottom, and none of the teeth where damaged. I did crack the engine over and it the CAs turned freely with the engine.
07-18-12, 11:37 AM
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She's alive
After a week and half of scratching my head and trying troubleshoot my new rotory baby, I finally got her to start up today!
Primary Diagnosis: Non working fuel pump (original cause of car not working)
Secondary Diagnosis: Flooded Engine
Thanks to the below threads!
https://www.rx7club.com/new-member-r...stion-1004017/
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...worked-692607/
Now time to figure out how well she it running. Thanks for your help.
Primary Diagnosis: Non working fuel pump (original cause of car not working)
Secondary Diagnosis: Flooded Engine
Thanks to the below threads!
https://www.rx7club.com/new-member-r...stion-1004017/
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...worked-692607/
Now time to figure out how well she it running. Thanks for your help.
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