RecklessDino

Hi,
I just bought this Ferrari Dino replica off ebay:


It has a Mazda RX7 rotary motor but I would like to know which one (12A, 13B, etc) so I know what I can do with it. I know the car does not have a turbo and I am not sure how much power the VW transmission can handle. I am not looking to make the car less reliable but would like to know what my options are without having to remove the motor.




In case you need to see more photos:
Ferrari : Other Dino coupe in Ferrari | eBay Motors

Much thanks in advance!!!

vadav

That transaxle is the limiting factor here, those cant take much abuse...

Evil Aviator

I always thought those cars were neat.

You can get upgraded VW transaxles and Porsche axles to strengthen the drivetrain if you plan on increasing the engine output. I am sure there is a kit car forum somewhere online that can help you out with any upgrades, as Mazda rotary engines are a fairly common upgrade for VW-based kit cars.

If you look next to the "MAZDA" markings above the spark plugs, you should see "12A" engine markings on the rotor housings.

Unfortunately, it is not so simple to fully identify an engine based solely on the rotor housing markings because many of the parts can interchange between engines. Additionally, there are internal options and modifications (bearing types, oil and coolant system modifications, apex seal types, porting, etc.) that you can not see from a picture. Therefore, if you really want to know exactly what you have, it will require a complete disassembly of the engine and an inspection by an experienced rotary engine mechanic.

RecklessDino

Thanks for the advice! Any other performance upgrade without tearing the engine open. Exhaust and headers probably wouldnt do much and I havent seen any real success from an air intake

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

welcome to the board.

looks like a 12A with Holley system to me. sadly, you're at a point where making any more SIGNIFICANT power will require major work (and some money). if you're not keen on that, then continue to enjoy the car as is. you can probably play around with some tuning a bit, maybe even try a dual-Lead direct fire modification, but again, it's adding insignificant power if any at all.

RecklessDino

I read somewhere that adding a turbo was a bolt on process to the 12A motor. Is that true?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

maybe 30 years ago.

today it requires some fabrication even in an Rx-7. i can only imagine in your custom application that it will require even more; and God forbid, you pop it ....

honestly, you're probably better off leaving well enough alone for a while. give it some thought. if you still want a turbo in 6 months, then my suggestion would be just convert to a 13B-T. either way you will have to fabricate, but at least with the 13B, you can have a quicker downtime if you pop it under boost.

RecklessDino

Thanks for the advice. Is porting an option or is that too costly as well? I have no idea what porting a rotary engine is like.

Evil Aviator

It is pretty much true if you can source some old Japanese-spec 12A turbo parts (the US engines were all non-turbo), or if you can find an old Cartech turbo kit. Unfortunately, those kits are terrible by modern standards, and there is very little chance that you would find any in good shape.

If I were the owner of that car and wanted to turbocharge it, I would just drive it as-is right now, and build up a nice 13BT engine to replace the 12A later on. The 13BT is still fairly easy to source, it has better torque, it has way more options, and unlike the 12A you can still easily get parts for it. Just keep in mind that the more power you add, the more you will need to upgrade the cooling system, fuel system, and driveline. You are looking at about $5,000 to $40,000, depending on the level of the build.

Porting requires engine disassembly, and therefore it is only cost effective if accomplished in conjunction with a rebuild.

These two links show various types of porting:
http://www.turborx7.com/portingpictures.htm
http://www.rotaryheads.com/porting/rx7-porting.html

The bottom of this link has FAQ about street porting and bridge porting:
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/porting.htm

RecklessDino

Thanks for the advice. I was considering about spending total $5k but agree with you I am going to wait some months and I recognize I may have to upgrade transmission if I really want to. I have other cars for going very fast but would like to see this go 0-60 in 5-6 secs. I think with 12A its probably going to be 8-8.5 seconds. I did read somewhere that 12A's are the best in terms of longevity. I am still learning issues with a rotary motor and this is my first car with a carburetor. Carbs gave me issues on my old Suzuki gsxr - I hope its not that painful in a car.

MrOffshore

Nice looking car...how does the interior look? Is the fit and finish on the body done well or is it gappy?

fd3661

The front end of Dino's kind of look like bottom feeders but overall looks like a good replica

RecklessDino

Car is still being shipped to me. I should have it next week, I just hope its fun to drive. It doesnt need to be fast but reasonably quick and not scary power. I have other cars for when I feel like racing.

samjaza78

Assuming it's a ghia platform (based on looks/size/kit car options) you've ended up with something really light, and the 12a may surprise you in it. But don't discount the exhaust- in rotaries, that's one of the first and cheapest places you can go to make power. Judging by what I can see of the exhaust set up, a set of headers and a couple phone calls would be in order- that doesn't look like a good set up period, and exhaust can leash a rotary pretty quick.

The other big thing I'd recommend is source something for an undertray, plastic, metal, or whatever. You need something to protect that engine bay if you intend to drive it, and it'll help with cooling issues down the road.

RecklessDino

Thanks for the advice. I will be redoing the exhaust and will look at the headers as well. I believe its a VW bug platform, it's still light around 2000 lbs but I am used to cars with 380-600HP but twice the weight. I have never driven a VW in my life and someone told me that it will take me time to get used to its suspension (I drive mostly V12's with hydraulic/air suspensions). I wish I could make this thing handle more like a Ferrari (that's more important to me than speed).

Is an undertray something like a skid plate for a truck? How will that help in cooling? I hope this is one of the 12A's that were known to last forever. Old engines scare me even though I love that they don't have ECU's and other nonsense to bog them down.

REAL TIGHT

I have seen a Ferrari Dino Replica like that at Aspect Tuning and he was giong to put in a 20B in it that was in 2010 if you need any help asked Aspect Tuning

samjaza78

Yes, and undertray and a skid plate are pretty much the same thing. It will help with cooling by helping you direct airflow into the engine, and protecting the radiator and what look like oil coolers from getting smacked by whatever small sharp objects you happen to drive over.

Basically, think of it like making a wind tunnel out of your engine bay. That's what you want to do.

Evil Aviator

LOL, that's the truth. It will never handle like a modern Ferrari, but I think that you will find it a lot of fun. If you want to describe the handling in a positive manner, then compare it to a classic Porsche.

The undertray helps cooling by ducting the radiator, not the engine bay. On an RX-7 these are one and the same, so you are getting some well-meaning advice that does not really apply to this car. If you put a full undertray under your engine bay, then the oil cooler will not get enough air for cooling. An engine bay undertray would probably help with aerodynamics, but it will not help with cooling, and it will actually hurt if the oil cooler is covered. Were it my car, I would not install an engine bay undertray, although I would check the front end to make sure the radiator is properly ducted.

A 12A does not last any longer than a 13B. Ironically, the carb does bog it down a bit, but a good tuner can clean up most of that problem. EFI is superior when it comes to response.

ZE Power MX6

iTrader: (157)

That's a cool kit car, you should come out to some rotary meet, I would love to see it in person.

RecklessDino

Good idea when is the next meet?

rob.boost

Nice kit car, would be a lot of fun with around 300whp.

TeeJayHoward

I'm with the other folks. Very cool car.

FromEver

That thing is so sick! Im new to rotary too so I cant really help you.. but that thing is really neat man! Hope everything goes well with it!

ZE Power MX6

iTrader: (157)

There's a huge car meet in Bolingbrook today.